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  1. #31

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    Re: New Rotary User Help

    lol I got your warnings loud and clear and from talking to people it sounds like Iím going to be too careful to burn thru anything until I start burning test panels on purpose . the Camry is a dark blue Iíve always wanted to do a blue car mostly blacks,silvers and reds. Iím excited for the white I did a white Altima a few years ago that came out wonderful so I know what to expect on the whites..


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  2. #32

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    Re: New Rotary User Help

    DarkThrottle- That dark blue might be a good one for spotting holograms/etc. pretty easily, it`s almost like black IMO.

    I bet you`ll find that burning through, even deliberately, takes quite a bit of doing I was always having to remind myself that I could get more aggressive than I considered natural (maybe because most b/c is softer than the ss I grew up with), and maybe you`ll be the same way.
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  3. #33

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    Re: New Rotary User Help

    Ok soooo today I finally got to run this new PE14 on my test hood

    I got this hood from a local body shop for a steal of a deal as itís in great shape besides the over spray and scratches...I added a few scratches of my own sweeping it off with a broom and lightly running my keys across the surface...I wanted some varying scratches outside of the swirls and overspray from being in a body shop for a few years...Last night I gave it a bath with some cheap soap and clayed it with my mothers clay puck and got it nice and smooth....and taped it off for this mornings activities....

    It was heavily swirled and I added some scratches of my own..

    I was going to do a full wet sand but I decided to learn some simple scratch and swirl removal techniques on the top of the hood and do all my wet sanding on the lower half. The best part is that this Challenger hood has lots of contours and curves to learn how to handle the machine...I keep it flat most of the time but Iím learning how to edge with the machine at lower speeds..So far Ive worked between 600Ė1350 rpm monitoring panel heat with my infrared gun and my hand accordingly and surprisingly there was no heat like I expected generated...temps reached max 68-77 deg...I could comfortably touch it and it was barely warm.. I did wet sand 2 sections one with 1500 only and another with 1500 then 2000, I did 2 passes with Menzerna FG400 and a hybrid Orange pad and got ok results...I adjusted my grip on the machine and tried again and while it removed most of the sanding marks there were still a few so I tried SI1500 I had left (no pics of before SI1500) and got much better results no holograms yet...



    This next section I did zero wet sanding i just polished with SI1500 and orange hybrid and then finished with white pad and SF4000 2 passes of each


    Iíd say i did pretty well first time putting a rotary to paint

    The bottles of polish Iím using are 8-5 years old but they still work well..I try to use my old stock in practice panels so it doesnít go to waste..


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  4. #34

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    Re: New Rotary User Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    DarkThrottle- That dark blue might be a good one for spotting holograms/etc. pretty easily, it`s almost like black IMO.

    I bet you`ll find that burning through, even deliberately, takes quite a bit of doing I was always having to remind myself that I could get more aggressive than I considered natural (maybe because most b/c is softer than the ss I grew up with), and maybe you`ll be the same way.
    You know I actually donít think burning thru will be easy at all now that Iíve used the machine on a couple different speeds


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  5. #35

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    Re: New Rotary User Help

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkThrottle View Post
    You know I actually don’t think burning thru will be easy at all now that I’ve used the machine on a couple different speeds
    Heh heh...see?

    Sounds like your careful, thought-out approach is working great.

    One thing though...(here I go being all doom-and-gloom again ) ...unless you`re a natural Rotary Meister, I bet you do have holograms, just need to get the inspection conditions right to see `em. I`ve had cases where it took two people, working *really hard at it* so spot them, but they were there and IMO would`ve been obvious under other conditions. (But OTOH, I can imagine people thinking "if they`re that had to find, I don`t care about `em" ).

    And FWIW, one of the main reasons why I don`t use Menzerna stuff is the way it can conceal things like holograms. The ones on my Yukon XLD stayed hidden for ages before showing up (and did show up even though the Pro in question worked hard to strip everything before LSPing and despite the LSP on top of them still being perfectly fine..those hard-to-remove oils *can* dissipate right under a good LSP exposing stuff you thought wasn`t there).

    EDIT: Oh, and (on a good note for once!), those polishes may well still be perfectly fine. None of my Abrasives are even close to being that new but they`re all still OK.
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  6. #36

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    Re: New Rotary User Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Heh heh...see?

    Sounds like your careful, thought-out approach is working great.

    One thing though...(here I go being all doom-and-gloom again ) ...unless you`re a natural Rotary Meister, I bet you do have holograms, just need to get the inspection conditions right to see `em. I`ve had cases where it took two people, working *really hard at it* so spot them, but they were there and IMO would`ve been obvious under other conditions. (But OTOH, I can imagine people thinking "if they`re that had to find, I don`t care about `em" ).

    And FWIW, one of the main reasons why I don`t use Menzerna stuff is the way it can conceal things like holograms. The ones on my Yukon XLD stayed hidden for ages before showing up (and did show up even though the Pro in question worked hard to strip everything before LSPing and despite the LSP on top of them still being perfectly fine..those hard-to-remove oils *can* dissipate right under a good LSP exposing stuff you thought wasn`t there).

    EDIT: Oh, and (on a good note for once!), those polishes may well still be perfectly fine. None of my Abrasives are even close to being that new but they`re all still OK.
    I did a CarPro eraser soaked wipe down then I did a IPA wipe down,I inspected under the sun as well as with my prospot detail light and my handheld swirl finder light I really really really was hoping and looking for some form of holograms but I truly believe they arenít there Iím really hoping there are some actually BECUASE I paid so much attention to everything I was doing from grip, to pressure, to arm speed to amount of compound etc every possible aspect so I would know exactly what works and exactly where things went wrong...I even tried following my buffing pattern with the light to see if I can pick up on any trails I used all foam pads and from what I understand so far holograms come from wool pads, high speed and fast movement or heavy abrasives in the compound that leave marks and scratches to be removed...I even examined from a inch off the paint lol I usually can find all defects if any as hard as I search for them but nothing just the scratches that were too deep to try to remove


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  7. #37

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    Re: New Rotary User Help

    But just out of curiosity what other handheld light would work great for seeing holograms and other hard to see defects


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  8. #38
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    Re: New Rotary User Help

    Looks like your getting it.

    question and not busting on you here.....
    looks like you got some pad hazing or is it just the camera doing that????? Those reflection shots should be crisper.
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  9. #39

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    Re: New Rotary User Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Oldz View Post
    Looks like your getting it.

    question and not busting on you here.....
    looks like you got some pad hazing or is it just the camera doing that????? Those reflection shots should be crisper.
    I donít know exactly what pad hazing would be in this instance could possibly be the camera as I was sweaty when handling the camera but also could be the panel not sure actually


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  10. #40

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    Re: New Rotary User Help

    Those pads you use and the Menzerna polishes is very good for polishing with a rotary. It`s often the pads that have a sharp edge around them and high speed on the polisher and you tilt with the polisher. That you create holograms. You can do only 1 faster pass and do a wipe down with the ipa or Eraser. To see holograms easier. With the diminishing abrasives in Menzerna you often has them break it down so you correct the initial holograms actually in the same polishing cycle. Then if you go to the real extreme you always put a new but finer scratch pattern when you step up to finer polishes. So even under the most visual inspection light you have always scratches in the paint. And you can`t avoid this but you can get such of fine scratch pattern so the human eye can`t see them. But they are still there. That`s also why if you inspect it to the extreme you can find places where you don`t maybe polished enough during the polishing cycle or that you didn`t broke down the abrasives in it enough. Think that it looks great. The only thing from just looking at the pictures is it`s looks like some pad haze. This can absolutely be the camera that does this too. So as just it looks great for your point of view it`s great.

    I really like the Scangrip Sunmatch and I have the first version of it. The mini Sunmatch light seems to be like the first version but in a smaller case. The Sunmatch v3 you have different light settings on it. So you can easier spot defects on different kind of colors and also different kind of depths of defects in the paint. With haveing a silver metallic paint and also a white paint I work on. I tested different lights and sure you saw some of the defects in the paint. But after testing different lights I got a great offer on the first versions of Scangrip when they released their v3 of them. And it really does make a huge difference in the defects you can see with it. The CRI value combined with the Kalvin and the rest I don`t remember LOL. It makes it to a really great inspection light. Maybe you can find another brand that has simualar values of the specs as the Scangrips. You can get a great inspection light from that too. They have a setting on the v3 that says to mimick the sunlight as close as possible. That setting I think would catch the holograms even under the light good. It`s not always the sun is up or hides behind the clouds LOL.

    The easiest to burn through is on the edges of the panel or a high bodyline. There the paint gets thinner. Also it depends on if it`s been polished on before and you have even a thinner clearcoat than from the factory. It`s also much when you are compounding and the pads really digs in when you go over an edge or bodyline the risk of getting through the paint is higher. And also when you have speeds over 2000rpm things can go really fast to an oops LOL. Many still do the high speed polishing with rotary polishers and that`s around 3000rpm. The results gets there after and the risk of burning through gets way higher and also even with a polishing pad and polish it`s hard to avoid holograms in those speeds. Keep it at a comfortable speed setting and pay attention on the panel and you will be fine with the risk of polishing with a rotary polisher. Then be thorough with the technique and you keep the risk of holograms at a low level. Many likes the Scholl polishes when useing a rotary polisher. Such as S3 Gold XXL compound and S40 as a finishing polish and the S30 is also a great one. Menzerna is also a great line of polishes and Sonax too. Wondering how the CSi polish is that Darren at the Autofetich detailing channel is doing a lot of advertising on and is going to sell it if I got it right. So maybe take it with a grain of salt. But the system sounds interesting. The biggest drawback that I have seen is it dust a lot. But the clean up seems easy to do. It`s a non diminishing abrasives in it.

  11. #41

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    Re: New Rotary User Help

    So lets just say that it is pad hazing what can I do to prevent it. Im also using my older Double soft towels from adams they are starting to leave a lot of lint on the surface when wiping away the polishing residue so that could be also what is being seen on the surface... Im probably going to make another new thread as ill be looking to purchase a finishing polisher soon but I really cant decide between the Flex XFE7-15 or the Rupes LHR15 Mk3 I currently have all flex machines
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  12. #42

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    Re: New Rotary User Help

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkThrottle View Post
    So lets just say that it is pad hazing what can I do to prevent it. Im also using my older Double soft towels from adams they are starting to leave a lot of lint on the surface when wiping away the polishing residue so that could be also what is being seen on the surface... Im probably going to make another new thread as ill be looking to purchase a finishing polisher soon but I really cant decide between the Flex XFE7-15 or the Rupes LHR15 Mk3 I currently have all flex machines
    Either it`s the finishing combo that`s too gentle and don`t take out the micro marring from the compounding step. Or that`s the pad is too aggressive and leaves micro marring behind or the finishing polish but doubt the last one since you used the sf4000. Maybe if you didn`t break it down enough. Don`t think that it`s the mf towel since it`s just so fine of a haze and uniform. Useally it`s shows in the ways you have wiped off the polish if you get towel marring. And if it`s clearer when you use the inspection light in real life then don`t worry about it. Pictures don`t always shows how it really looks.

  13. #43

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    Re: New Rotary User Help

    Great point for reference I did use the LC white foam hybrid pad and the SF4000 to finish down in those pictures

    Also...Are pads with center holes safe to run on my rotary I got a deal on 6 Force hybrid 5.5 pads I couldnít pass up and Iím very interested in that as I can run 5.5 on the rotary and 6.5 on my 3401 and have a pad system that works across both of my current machines I want to add a DA for finishing work but canít decide between Rupes 15 or Flex XFE7-15


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  14. #44

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    Re: New Rotary User Help

    Heh heh..IMO there`s never a case of "the camera doing it" More like, the camera isn`t as fallible as the human eye under some conditions; it can`t capture issues that aren`t really there. Hope that didn`t sound too snarky I`ll allow that OTOH it can be really *hard* to get pix of flaws when you want to!

    DarkThrottle- Go with somebody else`s suggestions for Inspection Lighting; I use an old 3M SunGun and you don`t want one of those! And even with that, when I used the rotary I`d spend literally *HOURS* at just the right time of day, with at least one helper, inspecting in natural sunlight. I`ve heard mixed reviews on the various generations of Scangrip lights (some people here won`t post publicly about their poor experiences because others say "no problem") so be sure you get the right one if you go that route.

    I won`t argue with you over the holograms If you`re happy then that`s that IMO! But I`ve seen even gentle Finish Polishes on soft foam pads cause `em (that`s how the Pro left `em on my Yukon).

    If shopping for a RO/DA, since you have the Flex 3401 I`d probably look at the new Griot`s unit with the 9mm throw. Although I hear it won`t work with 3-4" pads.

    SWETM brings up a good point- even though holograms are "mild, shallow marring" that *oughta* correct easy-peasy, it doesn`t always go that way. I`ve had to drop back down to pretty harsh stuff (via RO/DA) to get those "shallow little things" out!
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  15. #45

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    Re: New Rotary User Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Heh heh..IMO there`s never a case of "the camera doing it" More like, the camera isn`t as fallible as the human eye under some conditions; it can`t capture issues that aren`t really there. Hope that didn`t sound too snarky I`ll allow that OTOH it can be really *hard* to get pix of flaws when you want to!

    DarkThrottle- Go with somebody else`s suggestions for Inspection Lighting; I use an old 3M SunGun and you don`t want one of those! And even with that, when I used the rotary I`d spend literally *HOURS* at just the right time of day, with at least one helper, inspecting in natural sunlight. I`ve heard mixed reviews on the various generations of Scangrip lights (some people here won`t post publicly about their poor experiences because others say "no problem") so be sure you get the right one if you go that route.

    I won`t argue with you over the holograms If you`re happy then that`s that IMO! But I`ve seen even gentle Finish Polishes on soft foam pads cause `em (that`s how the Pro left `em on my Yukon).

    If shopping for a RO/DA, since you have the Flex 3401 I`d probably look at the new Griot`s unit with the 9mm throw. Although I hear it won`t work with 3-4" pads.

    SWETM brings up a good point- even though holograms are "mild, shallow marring" that *oughta* correct easy-peasy, it doesn`t always go that way. I`ve had to drop back down to pretty harsh stuff (via RO/DA) to get those "shallow little things" out!
    I was interested in the Griots machine until I saw a lot of reviews that said itís great But keep a lot of brushes on hand...I donít believe in buying anything that requires me to have a stock pile of parts to make sure ďJust in case this breaks ď I have another one..Iíd rather buy quality then buy back ups of those so if I break it then I also have another unit of same high quality to continue with...I really want to stay within 1-2 systems and If I can buy a German or Italian version of anything and I can afford it Iíd much rather have that option..Which brings me back to Flex XFE7-15 or Rupes Mark 3 LHR15 price donít matter on either as I get any machine from either maker for a hell of a lot less than what MSRP is I care about ease of use , ergos and capability


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