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  1. #1

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    Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

    At the Griot’s advanced class today, we had a discussion about the importance of decontamination in the paint correction process. So, if you want clean paint to start with, are the above considered contamination? My opinion is yes. They inhibit your initial attempt at correction. You must initially remove these prior to defect removal. Carnuba based products shouldn’t be a problem, however fairly stout sealants and coatings May survive both mechanical and chemical attempts at decontamination. Just something to think about, I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer, just a thought?


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  2. #2
    rlmccarty2000's Avatar
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    Re: Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

    I agree. Anything that is on your paint prior to a complete detail would be considered contamination. Contamination interferes with the proper adherence of a new LSP and requires removal.

    Luckily I have not run into the mythical coating that requires wet sanding. I have run into coatings that require a compound and microfiber pad for removal. Kisho may be the one though. It was tough to remove before it cured. I’ll find out next year, lol.

  3. #3
    Mike The Guz's Avatar
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    Re: Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

    Kevin Brown demonstrates this in one of the recent ammo videos. It is interesting.
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  4. #4

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    Re: Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

    Yep

  5. #5
    wannafbody
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    Re: Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

    Waxes trap contaminates. That`s why hybrid wax products are really a waste of money. The issue with long term coating revolves around their removal. How does one know that they`ve been removed.

  6. #6
    acuRAS82's Avatar
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    Re: Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

    Quote Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
    Waxes trap contaminates. That`s why hybrid wax products are really a waste of money. The issue with long term coating revolves around their removal. How does one know that they`ve been removed.
    Can you expand? Are you saying hybrids aren’t good because they trap contaminants during their lifetime (an extended period of time)vs the more pure (short duration) carnauba waxes?

  7. #7

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    Re: Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

    Mikie lambert- Nice to see somebody *not* just say "polish right through it, the abrasives will cut through existing LSP with no problems.." even if that is often the case.

    Sometimes it`s necessary, sometimes it`s merely desirable, other times it`s unnecessary; purely situational IME but there`s little downside to giving it a quick wipe with something that`ll strip it.

    On the subject of LSPs trapping contamination, IME that`s another situational topic. Some do, some don`t, and IMO it`s not just about the LSP but also the contamination itself and/or other factors. E.g., I`ve merely refreshed FK1000P for *years* with no decontamination/stripping at all and when I finally did "do it right" there was no discernible contamination. But that`s just *my* situation..one of those (literally, properly) subjective things where it`s risky to extrapolate.

    I agree emphatically that on this one there`s no right/wrong answer.

  8. #8

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    Re: Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

    Well , you can polish it off, I’ve removed many coatings that way. How do you tell? Well in my experience I notice a change in color, but most coatings also require a wipe with the recommended products. As far as durable sealants, polishing may be the only way, but then you need to hit that section again to properly cut or polish. My opinion?

  9. #9
    Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

    Quote Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
    Waxes trap contaminates. That`s why hybrid wax products are really a waste of money. The issue with long term coating revolves around their removal. How does one know that they`ve been removed.
    Waxes do trap contaminants, but they also shed them as the wax wears off. I`ve had way more paint defects using sealants than I ever did with waxes, and yes it makes me question why do I bother. Time to dig up some good paste wax!

  10. #10
    acuRAS82's Avatar
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    Re: Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Waxes do trap contaminants, but they also shed them as the wax wears off. I`ve had way more paint defects using sealants than I ever did with waxes, and yes it makes me question why do I bother. Time to dig up some good paste wax!
    So I guess what is being said is that even when applying wax on a clean, decontaminated surface, wax will then catch/trap new contaminants from that point forward until the wax wears off and the contaminants that did not find their way into the clear coat, but only into the wax, will shed.

    I still dont see how sealants or coatings are any different unless we’re saying they “deflect” more contaminants than wax. We do hear a lot of cases on the forum of coatings losing their behavior after some months and requiring decon to get its properties back. I also see wax or sealant keeps its properties (beading) for equivalent amount of time, so is there really any discernible difference between which LSPs trap more contaminants? Or does Sealant/wax keep its beading behavior longer for other reasons such as how they layer into/onto the clearcoat differently?
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  11. #11
    wannafbody
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    Re: Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

    The question revolves on whether the contaminants stick into the paint or just into the wax matrix. I`ve had less issues with contaminants sticking into the paint with a sealant vs a wax. I recently washed the roof of my truck which hasn`t been done for at least 6 months, maybe longer. I used a well known sealant last year. The roof cleaned up easily.

    Even if you didn`t do anything but regular washing, paint would probably last 12-15 years. With some protection, it probably will last longer.

  12. #12
    Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

    Quote Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
    The question revolves on whether the contaminants stick into the paint or just into the wax matrix. I`ve had less issues with contaminants sticking into the paint with a sealant vs a wax. I recently washed the roof of my truck which hasn`t been done for at least 6 months, maybe longer. I used a well known sealant last year. The roof cleaned up easily.

    Even if you didn`t do anything but regular washing, paint would probably last 12-15 years. With some protection, it probably will last longer.
    Yeah if you are going six months, there is no way a real wax protects that long. Any non synthetic wax is lucky to last 6 weeks.
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  13. #13
    wannafbody
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    Re: Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Yeah if you are going six months, there is no way a real wax protects that long. Any non synthetic wax is lucky to last 6 weeks.
    The average car owner probably washes their car once or twice a month in nice weather. This is why wash and wax products and spray waxes are the latest thing OTC. I`d be surprised if more than 10-15% of car owners even wax their car anymore.

    I bought P21s years ago, looked great but I think it only last about 3 weeks or so. I think as the waxes break down, more and more contaminants fall through the cracks, so to speak, and attach to the paint. If caught soon enough they might wash off, if not they might adhere more strongly. The worst offender is road tar during the summer months.

  14. #14
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    Re: Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

    Absolutely, the surface has to be completely stripped and pure in order to correctly identify all defects.
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  15. #15
    acuRAS82's Avatar
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    Re: Are waxes , sealants and coatings surface contamination?

    Quote Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
    I bought P21s years ago, looked great but I think it only last about 3 weeks or so. I think as the waxes break down, more and more contaminants fall through the cracks, so to speak, and attach to the paint. If caught soon enough they might wash off, if not they might adhere more strongly. The worst offender is road tar during the summer months.
    I’m still lost as to what is being implied. Are you saying that a car that is waxed will end up with more contaminants (not including the wax itself being called a contaminate per the OP) than it would with no protection at all?

 

 
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