Amateur Looking for Good Budget DA

[kkritsilas]

My posting that stated who was using the HF had nothing to do with "who" was using the HF, and more as a counter to the "HF polisher is junk/poorly made/won`t hold up" statements often being encountered. The people above (and I have identified two who are well known, undoubtedly there are others, but the others can`t be seen using their HFs) make a living at detailing and paint correction. So those two are using the HF, and they use them day in and day out. They work them hard doing a lot of detailing and paint correction with the HF, and it stands up fine for them. So, in order to address the topic at hand directly, the HF is a "...Good Budget DA" that holds up, and is good and powerful enough to do the work for not only an amateur, but holds up in professional use, too.

[Lonnie]

My two cents worth on this conversion/discussion (and that IS what`s its worth!): The proverbial "You get what you pay for."

There is a reason professionals detailers use top-grade (IE, high dollar) equipment: Time is money. Buy the best you can OR maybe you can find a good used polisher/buffer on E-Bay or Craig`s List that some professional no longer uses. Again, it`s used and you get what you pay for.

I am always taken aback when noobies have this expectation of producing professional results with "inferior" products and equipment, but perhaps more correctly, it is the lack of experience and use of said products and equipment that produce less-than-expected results. Trying to buff out a self-healing paint on an older Infinity with a Walmart-purchased $38.00 buffer and supplied pad and OTC Turtle Wax compound can be a headache and disaster. While I cannot dis the Original Poster (OP) for their request of how to maximize his capital investment in a polishing machine and what that choice should be, experience will play as much as a role in using it as the polisher itself. This forum contains ALOT of help in that area; IE, what works for what situations, but ultimately the end user will need to develop that experience on their own. Much like watching a video or reading about driving a golf ball; until you do it yourself, you are not a true "golfer" and it will take a lot of practice at a driving range or on a golf course before you become proficient at it.
So, here are some things to consider with a polisher/buffer:
1) Machine ergonomics; IE, how the machine "fits" you`. Is it heavy in weight? How is it balanced? Does it vibrate a lot? Where is the speed control and ON/OFF switch located relative to my hand or thumb when holding the machine?
2) Build quality (the "you-get-what-you-pay-for" to some extent; knock-offs or copy-cat polishers CAN be well built, but the attention to detail or materials is why it is priced as it is)
3) Warranty and service (which is why Griot`s Garage machines are highly regarded)
4) Available backing plates and sizes (If your vehicle has a lot of deeper "shapes/curves" or air scoops in the bodywork, a large diameter backing pate will not access those areas, if that large diameter backing plate is all that "fits" a particular machine)
5) Pad considerations (Thick pads, thin pads, Closed-cell, Open-cell, Microfiber, yes, even wool or synthetic wool, not to mention the diameter(s) [size(s] to fit the backing plate(s) you choose.

Add to that the type of paint your vehicle(s) has (have) (Hard Clear Coat, Soft Clear coat, Self healing Clear, Single Stage, or lacquer (if it is an older classic car) , and even the vehicle itself (a compact car versus a (very) large two-ton crew cab, extended bed truck) now you have even more variables to consider in selecting a polisher and associated hardware/equipment. The one-size-fits-all approach, while it may seem appropriate, may not product the desired results and lead to more frustration than many expect.

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Lonnie, I genuinely appreciate your comments. I`m not ready, able or justifibly skilled enough to spend $400 or more. I`m only doing some work on my cars. And only when it`s nice outside because I don`t have any place indoors to work. If the HF turns out to be awful, I`ll consider something better. If it can do what I need, great.

[Lonnie]

Mass. Wine Guy:
One other suggestion IF you do buy a Harbor Freight machine, Porter-Cable 7424XP, or Griot`s Garage 6" RO, is to buy 4" backing plate and 4" pads. The 8mm throw (the orbital rotation diameter that it uses for motion) is quite "small" and a smaller pad is; 1) easier to control for a beginner, and 2) more likely to access "confined" areas, like curves/contours in the bodywork of a vehicle, or under exterior mirrors, or polishing out frosted/hazed plastic headlight covers/lenses. Yes, it will take (a lot) more time to do an entire car that with a 5-1/2 " pad, but I think it "finishes" out better. (There is a whole science behind this about pad and plate deflection and the transfer lose of torque (IE working power) with larger pad diameters that you may research yourself within this forum under the Kevin Brown Methods)
Also, remember to tape (3M Blue Painter`s Tape) around plastic trim, chromed plastic trim, brushed stainless steel metal trim (on older cars), rubber seals or at tight apexes of curves/edges in body work. Even though the throw of a PC-DA is "small", it will marr/scuff plastic trim or burn through thin paint at edges during compounding. Taping jobs do no need to look professional, it just needs to be done. You will regret it if you do not when your pads turn black after getting near a rubber seal or you scuff plastic trim or worst of all, burn through paint at an edge. Plus it saves on clean-up time on plastic trim by preventing compound residue from imbedding into the trim, which can be (and IS, depending on the compound) a real bear to remove.

Just for my information, how did the town/area "North Dipstick" MA get its name?? I promise not to make fun of it, other than saying it is a "unique" name (the politically correct term).

[felixthecat]

x2^^^

[Mass. Wine Guy]

It`s actually Ipswich, MA. Just a native New Yorker poking fun at a small New England town.

[kkritsilas]

With any PC type polisher (HF, GG6, 7424XP), it is recommended to go with smaller pads/backing plate, However, the recommendation I have always seen is to go with 5.5" pads, and the backing plate (usually just below 5" diameter) that fits them (pretty much made by everybody). The 5.5" should be OK for a beginner, and will have the widest pad availability. It is also pretty efficient in terms of time used and the number of passes required to do a section. There are also a lot of "thin" pads (Thin Pros, Low Pros, etc.) which allow the PC type polisher`s power to go to the paint surface instead of flexing the pad. I don`t know, as in I really DON"T KNOW, if the thin pads are available in 4" or not, but I do know they are available in 5.5".

For tight spaces, get a 3.5" pads, and the appropriate backing plate (my LC backing plate is 2 7/8" in diameter). Again, availability of thin pads in 3.5" I don`t know, but then again, at 3.5", a thin pad really isn`t required.

As an opinion, the 4" pads are an oddball size, and exist only for one reason: this is the pads size for the Cyclo twin head polisher. There is no other reason for them to be made. They don`t give you much more time savings than the 3.5" pads, are not able to get into areas as small as the 3.5" pads can, and sit in no man`s land.

I have settled on 3 pad sizes: 5.5" (for almost all major sized panels), 3.5" for smaller panel areas, and 1" for areas that are too small for the 3.5". I use 5.5" pads with my 7424XP, the 3401(forced rotation), and my PE 14 (rotary). The 3.5" are used with the 7424XP, and the PE 14. The 1" are used with the PE 14. The 5.5" pads include Buff and Shine Flat pads, and Lake Country Hybrid Force pads. The 3.5" are also Buff and Shine Flats and Lake Country Hybrid Force. The 1" are Hybrid Force (in the colours they come in, they are not available in 1" size in all colours). I don`t have any intention of getting pads in every available size, as there is no reason for it; the incremental difference, for an amateur like me is not worth the capital investment. For a pro, 6.5", 7.5 or even bigger, can probably be justified in terms of time saving. They can also justify wool pads, and a lot of pads of each size. I cannot.` However, most of the respected advisors on getting started (Mike Phillips of Autogeek, Junkman 2000, etc) say to start with a PC and with 5.5" pads. Whether it be a PC or a HF, you will need to buy a backing plate (the HF is junk, the 7424XP has a funky BP and pad in one included in the box). You may need to do so if the GG6 come with a 6.5" backing plate, as well, but some come with a 5.5" backing plate. Factor that into the cost of the polisher, as well as the pads themselves.

[Lonnie]

It`s actually Ipswich, MA. Just a native New Yorker poking fun at a small New England town.

OK, so now I know where is and why the name.
Reminds me of our Wisconsinites poking fun at the residents in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan (U.P.), affectionately referred to as Yooper`s. Great people in reality.

A small town grocery chain store hired a young man to start as a store clerk. He did every thing he could to be accepted and went out his way to please customers. Once, an elderly woman said she only needed half a head of cabbage and was unwilling to pay for a full head, so the quick-thinking young man went into the back room, chopped the head in half, and gave it to her and charged her accordingly. He offered sale prices on single items that were 5 for 5 bucks, even though this was not the chain`s policy. The store did very well and it did not go unnoticed by the chain`s Regional Manager from customer on-line surveys and letters who mentioned the young man by name. So the Regional Manager went to visit that store and talk to the young man with an offer.
"Young man, we have noticed that you are very good at taking care of our customers and sales are exceptional at this store. We would like you to be the Store Manager at a new super-center we are opening soon in Escanaba in Michigan`s U.P."
"The U.P .??!!", replied the young man, "Why, the only two things that come from the U.P. are whores and hockey players!"
"Hey, my MOTHER comes from the U.P.!" bristled the offended Regional Manager.
And the quick-thinking young man replied, "Sir, what position does she play on the ice??"

[SGM2008]

However, the recommendation I have always seen is to go with 5.5" pads, and the backing plate (usually just below 5" diameter) that fits them (pretty much made by everybody). The 5.5" should be OK for a beginner, and will have the widest pad availability.

I`m in this camp. I don`t think a 5.5" pad has a tremendous learning curve and that size will give you the most bang for the buck.

If you find you need a smaller setup for tight spots, you can pick up a 3" backing plate and a couple of pads for around $30.

Good Luck!

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Ok. A 5 and a 3 inch backing plate and appropriate pads. Should I buy multiples of a few types of pads? Best simplest way to clean them? I`m going to start with the HF and extra 2 year warranty. And go up from there if needed. My main tasks are to correct old, swirl-ridden paint, and to buff/polish/smooth out areas I`ve repainted and clear coated. I`m open to any product suggestions.

Thanks!

[SGM2008]

I don`t know that you have to be in a rush to purchase multiple backing plates and pad sizes right off the bat. I didn`t purchase a 3" backing plate until I purchased a Rupes polisher and I turned my PC 7424XP into a 3" machine.

And FWIW (just to play Devil`s Advocate) .... if you`re planning on purchasing the HF Extended Warranty, why not consider the extra bucks (depending on your budget) and take a closer look at the GG6?

The consensus seems to be the HF backing plate is less than stellar. Once you buy the HF DA, an extended warranty and a new backing plate, you`re probably within $40 of a GG6 during an Autopia Sale. And, you`ll qualify for the Free Gift and one of the Free product samples.

It`s my understanding the HF Extended Warranty (1 year or 2 year) is good for one product exchange and one exchange only. At that point, your coverage lapses. For the extra $40 of a Griot`s, you get a lifetime warranty on what`s probably a better built machine in the first place.

Just something else to think about.

[Mass. Wine Guy]

I don`t want to spend $150. If the HF self destructs I`ll consider it. There are reviews on how the Griot`s stops at any angled body lines.

[kkritsilas]

Dallas Paint Correction and Auto Detailing actually did a comparison of the GG6 vs. the HF. The HF, despite its low end origins and being generally disparaged by most, actually stalls less on curved surfaces than the GG6 does. This goes against all logic, but is actually shown on video. The videos are here:

Part 1: Intro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDf865uALwg&t=5s

Part 2: Final
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PFddUJEFTA

The second video does explain exactly why the HF stalls LESS than the GG6, using the same pads, polish, arm speed and pressure on curved surfaces. He does talk about the trade offs between the two, and makes some very good points. I wish the HF was available up here, but its not. I would get one from an eBay seller, but they are way overpriced when you know what HF is actually charging for their DA, and I refuse to give somebody over double the retail price of a HF, and then add shipping and taxes on top of that.

For the record, both polishers are made in Chine, if that is important. For all we know, they may be made in the same factory, or maybe not. Point is, the HF polisher costs less, and stalls less, than the GG6.

[Rsurfer]

My posting that stated who was using the HF had nothing to do with "who" was using the HF, and more as a counter to the "HF polisher is junk/poorly made/won`t hold up" statements often being encountered. The people above (and I have identified two who are well known, undoubtedly there are others, but the others can`t be seen using their HFs) make a living at detailing and paint correction. So those two are using the HF, and they use them day in and day out. They work them hard doing a lot of detailing and paint correction with the HF, and it stands up fine for them. So, in order to address the topic at hand directly, the HF is a "...Good Budget DA" that holds up, and is good and powerful enough to do the work for not only an amateur, but holds up in professional use, too.

You must not polish very much.

[kkritsilas]

Rurfer:

And your brilliant insight into the question at hand has been duly noted, and given all of the consideration it deserves.

If you had bothered to read the entire thread, you would have seen that:

a) I am a DIYer/amatuer. Never claimed to be anything else. So by professional standards, no I don`t polish a lot. I polish my own cars (2), with maybe a third on the way, and my friend`s and neighbour`s (another 2-3) per year. so no I don`t polish a lot. Please let me know how that has any bearing on the question at hand, which is what BUDGET polisher to buy for an AMATEUR. I would be the wrong person to speak to the reliability of the PC, or my Flex XC3401, or the PE14, as I don`t use them hard enough. Your point is? Note that the original poster is looking for a polisher for 2 VWs. I would think my logic recommending the HF is solid. By your definition, he won`t be doing a lot of polishing, either.

b) I don`t own a HF, and probably never will, living in Canada (barring Harbor Freight coming to Canada, or eBay sellers stop trying to get rich off of selling HF DAs for over double their normal selling price in a HF store).

This is why most of my posts have pointed out that there are professionals using the HF DA regularly, day-in, day-out, to not only correct paint, but even more importantly, they rely upon it to make a living. I may not be the right person to speak to the HF`s (or any other polisher`s) reliability, but they can. They use their polishers hard, harder than you do, most likely, probably as hard as they can be used, and they still work. Gary Dean had his last HF last 2 years, and it didn`t wear out, it was dropped and broke. Also note, that in professional use, the GG6 no longer has a lifetime warranty. By that alone, I am taking it that the GG6 is not to be used in a professional environment.

My postings are opinions that address the question that was originally posed; an amateur wanting to buy a budget DA. I am an amateur speaking to another amateur. I don`t pretend to be a pro, and neither does the person asking the question. It may be that the greatest polisher in the world is a $CAN639 Rupes 21 Mark II, and its great to be able to afford that. However, that isn`t what was asked by the original poster.

Want to pick a fight? Go ahead, this guy even gives you his phone number. But before you do that, watch the video first, then take it up with him (may want to pay particular attention to the video at the 8:00 to 10:00 minute marks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjDD...QkJwGOfA8mWoq4