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Thread: Makita PO5000C

  1. #31

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    Re: Makita PO5000C

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteWizard View Post
    I`ve been running this machine for a few a few weeks now and here`s the method I use to get the best finish in forced rotation. I run my compound till the shine comes through the residue, wipe off the residue, then without putting more product, using just the worn out product that`s on the pad I go over the area again. The other option is to switch from forced to random at the end of the cycle - when the material is worn out - and go over the surface in a final pass. That is particularly good if the product is sticking to the paint, it makes wiping off much easier.

    I do wish Makita had made the 5000 run the same direction as a rotary... If anyone can explain that one, I`d love to hear it.

    BTW, when switching back to forced rotation, turn the pad slightly to load the gears before turning the machine back on.

    WhyteWizard
    I would not attempt this technique with a SMAT polish.

  2. #32
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    Re: Makita PO5000C

    Quote Originally Posted by Rsurfer View Post
    I would not attempt this technique with a SMAT polish.
    That is why I use DAT polishes. With a SMAT polish once the lube/carrier is gone the abrasives still cut !

  3. #33

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    Re: Makita PO5000C

    To "explain" the difference between the two abrasive technologies (in laymen`s terms):
    DAT- Diminishing-Abrasive Technology is where the abrasives breaks down in size as the compound/polish is being worked in during the buffing cycles. The beginning of the buffing cycle the "larger-sized" abrasive particles do the initial cutting to remove the larger imperfections in the surface and then as the compound breaks down, it finishes to achieve a "finer" surface with the "smaller-sized" abrasive particles that have formed from the buffing cycle. It takes a pressure and heat, generated by the rotational motion of the buffing machine to do this, WHICH is why a high-amp electrical motor driven rotary buffing machine OR large-throw dual-actions lends themselves to this: they have the power to generate both.
    3D`s AAT Rubbing Compound and Finishing Polish are examples DAT abrasives.
    SMAT- Super-Micro Abrasive Technology is where the abrasives are nano-sized or engineering to a specific size to do the cutting (correcting) or polishing. They do not break down is size during the buffing cycle. They may also require Trade-Secret Oils (TSOs) that act as a lubricant to prevent micro-marring the surface. This why it may require both a compounding abrasive and then a polish abrasive to achieve that perfectly corrected finish. SMAT compounds/polishes tend to have a longer work (buffing) times, although my early version of M105 dusts extremely quickly, which I dislike, and requires water spritzing or mixing with another Meg product that has more TSOs to "resolve" this problem. Meg`s M105/M205 and M101/M100 are examples of SMAT abrasives.

    Which compounds and polishes work best with this Makita PO5000C? That`s a loaded question because there are SOOO many factors to take in when correcting and/or polishing.
    Here`s some things to consider:
    1) Paint type; clear-coated or single stage (or lacquer if it`s really old)
    2) Paint/clear-coat hardness
    3) Paint thickness: new paint or previously compounded and polished paint (IE, someone removed all the orange peel)
    4) Work environment ambient temperature and humidity (IE, indoors in a climate controlled facility or outdoors in the sun)
    5) Pad type: open cell, closed cell, microfiber, tall pads or thin pads
    6) Type of surface imperfections: Minor swirls OR random-isolated deep scratches (RIDS)
    Once you take all this into account, then you have the myriad of abrasive to choose from. Let us Autopians know what works with new machine and why.

    WhyteWizard:
    Your suggestion to turn the backing plate to pre-load the gears (IE, taking up the free play between the gear teeth) when switching from the free mode to the forced mode is important; something I never thought of. It prevents that initial "jolt" in starting AND providing longevity to the backing plate driven teeth. You must have discovered this by trial-and-error.
    GB detailer
    Thanks Mary B thanked for this post

  4. #34

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    Re: Makita PO5000C

    Yes indeed, huge difference. When burnishing with 1Z High Gloss I`d literally buff it dry..."to powder"; try that with SMAT and it`ll be a whole `nother job fixing what results. Personally, I`m all about the SMAT myself as I like being able to stop abrading when the job`s done rather than having to keep going until the *polish* is done...the kind of thing that caused my painter to trash my Jag last autumn.

  5. #35

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    Re: Makita PO5000C

    The products I`ve found work really well with the PO5000C are Menzerna 400 or whatever it`s called now, Jescar correction and finishing polish, Wizards Mystic Cut and a couple of others. The new Force pads from Lake Country are very good - except the grey pad that`s too hard for me - your mileage will vary, it just doesn`t work for me.

    Also, Rupes backing plates fit right on the Makita - the hex head bolt even fits perfectly. Of course the fit isn`t perfect but I`ve had the 5 inch Rupes backing plate on one of my machines - the one I use for a couple of weeks now with no slipping or issues. I may try a 6 inch on my other machine. I switched because the scalloped edge on the Makita made it look like the backing plate was spinning clockwise while the pad looked like it was spinning counter clockwise - which, of course - it is. I found this aggravating because I like things to look like they`re doing what they are in fact doing.

    This is the car I was doing yesterday and today. https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...1ZblBuY0VGZ3pR 1964-ATS 2500 GT

    It`s going to the Quail next week.
    Likes Lonnie liked this post

  6. #36

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    Re: Makita PO5000C

    The way I understand DAT and SMAT is like this:

    DAT: DAT (Diminishing Abrasive Technology) abrasives start as clusters of smaller abrasive particles. Under heat and pressure, the clusters break down into their smaller abrasive particles, the heat and pressure coming from the pad oscillating and/or rotating on the paint surface. The clusters, before breaking down, act as larger abrasive particles, and so cut faster. You must continue to work the DAT abrasives until after they have broken down, or the paint surface will look hazy, because the clusters are acting as if they were much coarser grit. After the clusters do break down, they act as a much finer grit, so the paint finish will look better. The abrasive will have some lubricants and oils in it to allow for the pad, clusters and particles to slide around.

    SMAT: SMAT (Sub-Micron Abrasive Technology) only has the small abrasive particles. The particles are very small (hence, sub micron) but there are a lot of them per unit of volume, so they can cut, even though they are very small. They have oils/lubricants as well, for the same reason as there is for the DAT abrasives. The major difference is that SMAT compounds/polishes don`t need to be worked to any particular point; the abrasive action is the same from the time you start until they start to dry out. There is no set limit on how early or how late you can stop working the compound/polish, because the paint finish will look the same with 2 passes as it will with 8; you only have to judge if you are happy with the correction provided.

    There are good products of each type, and if used properly, both can produce excellent results. The only thing that has to be kept in mind is that DAT products will need to be worked until the clusters break down, and then a couple of passes more.

  7. #37

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    Re: Makita PO5000C

    This is just my observation when it comes to cutting and polishing paint. The compound or polish and all the chemistry and abrasives, the pad, the motion of the machine and the amount of movement between the pad and the paint` the pressure at the point of contact, the hardness of the paint and the way the paint responds to the combination of all those factors is what makes something work or not. There are lots of combinations that work and the differences in results between people skilled in the uses of those different combinations get amounts to spit. Time, on the other hand varies widely.

    When it comes to getting that last little bit of gloss, even wiping the residue off with a dry cloth can move the needle the wrong direction. That`s why no matter what combination of products, pads, machines, etc. I`m using, I think it`s a good idea to push the product long enough that there`s almost no residue being left behind while keeping just enough product in play as to not introduce any scuffing. There is a point where there`s really nothing more getting accomplished so it`s time to stop and that`s when I either wipe off the residue with as little pressure as will work or just wax over the top of it - then wax - I`m using the term "wax" here, generically, I don`t use wax - then wax again once the residue is out of the way.

    Robert
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  8. #38

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    Re: Makita PO5000C

    So if Rupes plate fits, this could technically sport a Kamikaze plate?

  9. #39

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    Re: Makita PO5000C

    I may try my 75E bp on my po5000c

  10. #40

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    Re: Makita PO5000C

    Quote Originally Posted by nothingface5384 View Post
    I may try my 75E bp on my po5000c
    Well 75e would need bp tapped for Makita bp hardware to thread up plus its 35 grams vs ,120 grams..
    Tried another bp I had.. threads right on...90 grams ....30 grams difference.

  11. #41

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    Re: Makita PO5000C

    I think it was the bigfoot 5 inch backing plate that went on no problem.

    Robert

  12. #42

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    Re: Makita PO5000C

    I used the Griot 3in HD Backingplate
    Boss g15/21 and Rupes 15/21 should all work
    Duetto may work too
    http://facebook.com/ShineStruckAutoDetailing/

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  13. #43

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    Re: Makita PO5000C

    Quote Originally Posted by nothingface5384 View Post
    I used the Griot 3in HD Backingplate
    Boss g15/21 and Rupes 15/21 should all work
    Duetto may work too
    Thanks. Have you ever wondered why, since the manufacturers know we`re going to add weight with our pads and products, they don`t make the backing plates lighter in anticipation of the added weight? I know it would make the machine unbalanced when it`s not in use, but I only care about balance when I`m using the thing.

    Robert

  14. #44

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    Re: Makita PO5000C

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteWizard View Post
    Have you ever wondered why, since the manufacturers know we`re going to add weight with our pads and products, they don`t make the backing plates lighter in anticipation of the added weight?
    I figure that when the machine was designed from the jump as a Polisher (unlike the original PCs) they *do* take that into account and target the right weight with consideration of numerous factors.

    Look at how the original PCs had counterweights for both 5" and 6" size backing plates even though the actual weights of the plates (and size, effective friction-area of the sanding disks, etc.) weren`t all that significant. Apparently minor diffs mattered a lot with regard to Finish Sanding, while those of us who`ve used different size pads/plates on that machine know that it doesn`t make much difference at all when polishing vehicles.

  15. #45

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    Re: Makita PO5000C

    I think they do, but they need to settle on one target weight. When there is significant variation from that target weight, thew will still be an imbalance. Then add in the backing plate variations, both in weight and in size, and it is close to impossible to get a perfect balance. For example, a 5" backing plate, with an LC Hybrid Force pad will be on one end of the wright scale, while a 4 3/8` backing plate with a 5.5" Low Pro/Thin Pro pad would be on the other end of the scale, and this doesn`t even take into account the use of 3" pads and their backing plates. So unless thate is some method devised to balance the BP/Pad weights exactly, you must expect to have some level of imbalance, or just use a rotary.

 

 
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