Makita PO5000C

[Accumulator]

Wonder how it finishes out in FORCED...for the life of me I can never get the Flex 3401 to yield the same Final Finish as my free-rotating units (especially the Cyclo). Most people can`t see it, but I can tell exactly what/where the diff is every time.

[Mary B]

You guys are over think it..it`s a 3401 alternative...just use it in forced mode... edge the pad on tight areas..... done

She`s still butt ugly, and way overpriced.

[EdLancer]

She`s still butt ugly, and way overpriced.

Its about $150-$200 cheaper than the 3401 !
The Makita brand is more established in North America than Flex so service centers are plentiful and parts much more easy to get.
I thought the PC 7424 had a 8mm stroke like the 3401. The only con I have against the Makita, Flex and Rupes is their use of proprietary backplates which are limited in size and expensive.
As detailers who already have an arsenal of standard backplates none of these machines are an option !

[KBsToy]

Flex $20.00 more than Makita on AG site....

[kkritsilas]

Its about $150-$200 cheaper than the 3401 !
The Makita brand is more established in North America than Flex so service centers are plentiful and parts much more easy to get.
I thought the PC 7424 had a 8mm stroke like the 3401. The only con I have against the Makita, Flex and Rupes is their use of proprietary backplates which are limited in size and expensive.
As detailers who already have an arsenal of standard backplates none of these machines are an option !

The Flex XC3401 and PC 7424 (non XP version) do have 8 mm throws. The comparison between the 7424 and the PO5000C was because both have pretty low thresholds at which pad stalling happens. The 7424 was due to a fairly low powered motor; the PO5000C, because it has a fairly high power motor, I can only guess due it`s very short 5.5mm throw.

As for the back plate, it sure would be nice to have the choice offered by PC 7424 type polishers, but I don`t think it is going to be possible on higher end polishers. The Flex XC3401 backing plate, for example, has gear teeth molded onto the back side, and they are required for the forced rotation to work. The Rupes plates are probably customized for their balancing system to work properly. As for people having an "arsenal" of backing plates, that is a bit of a reach. I can see people having an arsenal of pads but not backing plates. I can see people having pads in a few sizes, say 6.5"/5.5", 3.5" and 1". But I don`t think that many will have 6.5", 5.5", 4", 3.5", 3", ", and 1", and expect them to all be used on the same polisher. It is reasonable to expect to use 6.5"/5.5" pads on one polisher, and the 3.5" and smaller pads on another polisher, whether it be on a PC 7424 type polisher, or something like a Flex PE8.

[kkritsilas]

Not in Canada (EdLancer is posting from Montreal). The Flex polishers are very expensive in Canada; the Makita equipment seems to be priced along the exchange rate. The Flex units, for example an XC 3401 is $C506, and it is fairly reasonable to expect the Makita to come in at $C350-400. The XFE7-150 is $C549.

[WhyteWizard]

Wonder how it finishes out in FORCED...for the life of me I can never get the Flex 3401 to yield the same Final Finish as my free-rotating units (especially the Cyclo). Most people can`t see it, but I can tell exactly what/where the diff is every time.

I`ve been running this machine for a few a few weeks now and here`s the method I use to get the best finish in forced rotation. I run my compound till the shine comes through the residue, wipe off the residue, then without putting more product, using just the worn out product that`s on the pad I go over the area again. The other option is to switch from forced to random at the end of the cycle - when the material is worn out - and go over the surface in a final pass. That is particularly good if the product is sticking to the paint, it makes wiping off much easier.

I do wish Makita had made the 5000 run the same direction as a rotary... If anyone can explain that one, I`d love to hear it.

BTW, when switching back to forced rotation, turn the pad slightly to load the gears before turning the machine back on.

WhyteWizard

[nothingface5384]

To re iterate, PO5000C is a better Flex in every way with none of it`s cons (unless counter clockwise bothers you) then theirs one con
You can find uses for free spin mode, bit it`s not going to be a primary feature for 99% of the user
It`s secondary..so even though it doesn`t have enough counter balance to keep pad rotation..which may seem disappointing to majority...it is a feature the 3401/XCE and Mille won`t have..

If the Mille had such a feature..the rotation would be worse off as that throw is even less then the po5000c

[WhyteWizard]

The amount of energy contributed to work by the rotation of the pad on random orbital machines and the Makita in the random orbital mode can be felt by attaching a string to the edge of the pad and turning the machine on. The effort it takes to keep the pad from spinning is the force applied to the paint by a random orbital - free spinning - machine. I think the whole spinning or not spinning in random orbital machines is overblown.

WhyteWizard

[Accumulator]

WhyteWizard- With the products I use that "turn off the forced rotation" must be mandatory, and, unfortunately, not possible with my Flex 3401. No matter what I tried, it simply doesn`t give the same final finish as my Cyclos/etc. Being able to turn it off on this Makita sounds like a real feature to me!

[kkritsilas]

The forced rotation polishers (Flex DC3401 and Makita P05000C) turn counter clockwise because there is an extra gear engaged. In the Flex XC3401 this gear is the ring gear that engages the gear teeth in the backside of the backing plate, and the Makita P05000C has a Youtube video showing the exact way that the two modes work, including the internal gearing.

The only way to get forced rotation polishers to rotate clockwise is to either introduce another gear, or to reverse the motor so that the motor is turning "backwards". The first would make the machine heavier, the second would make the machine incompatible (in terms of using an existing motor) with any exisiting motors that the manufacturer may already be producing.

I don`t know if anybody else has tried this, but a Flex XC3401 can be made to operate in a free spin mode. All it takes is a non-Flex backing plate (or even better, a Flex backing plate that has had the gear teeth ground off) that has a center hole that will allow the use of the XC3401`s plate mounting bolt to pass through the center. When this is done, the backing plate rotates clockwise. I can`t attest as to how well this works, because I only tries this as an experiment, not to actually polish anything. I used a Shurhold plate, but I think that a Flex backing plate withe the teeth ground down would work better, as the center spindle on an XC3401 has a stop on each side of the center bolt hole, and the Flex plate has the mating extensions on each side of the center hole, whereas the Shurhold plate is just a flat metal surface, so the amound of contact surface between the Shurhold plate and the center spindle on the XC3401 is very small. It spins fine in free air, but probably wouldn`t work well with any resistance applied to it.

[EdLancer]

Not in Canada (EdLancer is posting from Montreal). The Flex polishers are very expensive in Canada; the Makita equipment seems to be priced along the exchange rate. The Flex units, for example an XC 3401 is $C506, and it is fairly reasonable to expect the Makita to come in at $C350-400. The XFE7-150 is $C549.

Yup, $506 plus 15% taxes makes it close to $600, these polishers are not worth that kind of money no matter what anyone says !
On the other hand while doing my research I was a little surprised that Home Depot Canada sells Metabo and the PE 12-175 rotary sells for less than in the US ...LoL
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.p...001002401.html

[WhyteWizard]

Nothing,

You`re right, the new hybrid pads from Lake Country work like magic with this machine. I`ve been running the Makita BO6040 since 2003 so the counter clockwise spin isn`t an issue for me and the extra power and speed of the 5000 were worth selling my other machines and replacing them with two - yes two - because I can`t afford to have a machine stop mid job.

The number of cars I need to hit with a rotary has gone down significantly. Less than half and the results are the same or better.

If you`re having trouble with vibration, try Mad Grip gloves - available at Lowe`s. They have a soft rubber all over the working surface, hold things tight without needing a lot of grip and pretty much kill vibration. They aren`t sold as anti-vibe but they are the best I`ve found when it comes to that.

All the best.

[Mary B]

The amount of energy contributed to work by the rotation of the pad on random orbital machines and the Makita in the random orbital mode can be felt by attaching a string to the edge of the pad and turning the machine on. The effort it takes to keep the pad from spinning is the force applied to the paint by a random orbital - free spinning - machine. I think the whole spinning or not spinning in random orbital machines is overblown.

WhyteWizard

WOW !! This one went right over my head

[Accumulator]

WhyteWizard- Yeah, the Vibration Reducing Gloves can indeed be helpful, I`ve used them for years with other pieces of equipment. I can`t stand them, or any gloves for that matter, when polishing though, diminishes my sense of feel too much. Eh, just a personal/subjective thing...I find that gloves generally interfere with all sorts of tactile activities. It`s sorta like wearing rings; I simply can`t on a regular basis as they result in diminished performance when performing certain critical tasks.