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  1. #1
    SuperBee364's Avatar
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    Gents, I`ve been thinking... (just don`t let my wife know that. She gets nervous when I think).



    How do you select what pad you are going to use? What`s the thought process behind your selection?



    FWIW, here`s my thoughts on the issue...



    When compounding, I like to pick a compound suitable for the paint I`m correcting, then vary the pad aggressiveness according to how much correcting I need to do. For the most part, I try to stay with M105 and PFW for compounding, as it is a great combination of correction ability and it finishes down *very* nicely, even on soft paints. However, if I need more correction, I`ll stick with the M105, and increase the aggressiveness of the pad to, say, an Edge 2K yellow wool. If even that isn`t enough, I`ll go up to a black Edge wool. At this point, if I`m still not getting enough cut, I`ll change to a more aggressive compound and go back to the PFW.



    For light polishing and jeweling, I like to stick with a zero bite pad (I`m using either red Edge wave foam, Edge white finishing wool, or Meg`s Soft Buff 2.0 Black) and vary the polish according to how bad the remaining defects are and according to the hardness of the paint. I like to stay with a zero bite pad, because any pad that has any bite to it can only finish down to a level that that particular pad is capable of. Yeesh, that sounds complicated... Let`s see if I can paint a better picture.. Let`s say we have a Gloss Scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest possible gloss. Now let`s pair a zero bite pad (gloss potential of 10) with a polish that hits 8 on the gloss scale. As long as our technique is correct, we finish out with the gloss scale number that is lowest of the pad/polish used. In this case 8, as the polish is only capable of finishing out to an 8. Now let`s use that same 8-rated polish with an LC white pad, which does have some bite to it, and it has a gloss rating of 6. Now our final gloss is limited to six because of the pad`s max gloss rating.



    So by using a zero bite pad, we eliminate the pad`s ability to negatively effect the final gloss, and are truly seeing the *polish`s* gloss ability, which is what we want. Otherwise, how would you ever know if you are really reaching your light/finishing polish`s potential if you are using a pad that has bite to it?



    So to summarize, I always use a zero bite pad after compounding in order to get the maximum gloss that particular polish can give me. If I need more bite, I`ll change to a polish with more bite to it, but stay with a zero bite pad, again so I get the best finish that polish can give me.



    Works for me, anyway. How do you guys decide?
    Sage advice from Greg Nichols: "Hey, Supe? When you`re trying to get the air bubble out of your syringe of Opti-Coat, don`t point it at your face, mmmkay?"

  2. #2

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    Hmmm very interesting. I haven`t had the need to go past PFW/M105, but your theory with the finishing polish is interesting. I`m going to try it out tomorrow, I typically just use PO85RD and it brings the gloss up to an amazing level, I`ll try it on a Detailersdomain Blue Pad and then the Detailersdomain black wax pad and let you know if I see any difference.



    Thanks for your thoughts Supe :goodjob

  3. #3

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    Good little writeup there.



    You should say you are going to publish it, torturing us by saying you are perfecting it, call it the SBM, then finally release it to us mere mortals.



    I really have been doing a lot of reading on this jeweling method that you summarized nicely here. Im familiar with using a finishing pad with a finishing polish such as PO85, but am not too familiar with using a lighter polish with a finishing pad and then a finishing polish with a finishing pad.



    Is that what you are saying?



    Maybe it would help by posting your *preferred* steps in order with pad/polish combos.



    Nice job.

  4. #4

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    I tend to follow a similar thought process. My first pad I try is almost always an 8006 with 105 or SOLO via Makita or Ultimate Compound via DA. If it`s not enough I go to SOLO yellow wool with 105 or SOLO. If I`m going wool for my first step I know an 8006 with Ultimate Compound is next via DA followed by #205 via black finishing pad. If I can get away with an 8006 and any liquid via rotary or DA then I go right to #205 and a black pad.



    However, I have some PFW pads I have been playing with. I don`t have enough time with them to know if I can go right to finishing pad/polish. Last time I still went to UC and an 8006 via DA before finishing with black and M205.



    Basically I do one of two things it seems:

    Wool

    8006

    Black finishing



    or:

    8006

    Black finishing



    And I vary my cut with various polishes and machines. I am using fewer different pads and steps now that non-diminishing polishes are available in so many different cut levels.

  5. #5

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    Thanks for this tid bit. I am going to do an exterior detail of my RX this weekend. It will be my first time ever using a DA and I was still up in the air on how I was going to do it. Thanks to your suggestion, I will likely use the M105 with the Meg`s Soft Buff 2.0 polishing pad and finish with M205 and Meg`s Soft Buff 2.0 finishing pad.



    Don`t worry, I`ll post pics of my before and after.
    2010 Obsidian Black Lexus RX350 AWD

    2005 Mineral Gray Metallic Dodge Durango Limited AWD

  6. #6

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    I`ve still never used PFW yet. Always meaning to pick one up to try it though. But it all comes down to the color of the paint for me. Usually my most aggressive combo is a finish twisted wool pad with a decent cut compound (Heavy/Med) I`ll go a couple passes (as needed) and then switch up to a polish wool finish combo again another couple passes (as needed) and then it`s over to the foam to finish down. I also like the zero bite pads for final glossing. Usually it`s UF pad with UF but I`ve been playing around alot with 205 and getting some great results there as well.

  7. #7

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    Interesting thread...



    I am going to try the zero bite pad theory / Superbee Method when I get some time, perhaps this weekend.



    My thoughts go like this or did up until now....



    Compounding I would always reach for SIP and LC Orange, if I needed more bite then I reached for the PFW pad. If I still needed more bite, then well uhhh I dont really trust myself wetsanding yet, so multiple passes with the PFW would be in order (dont have much in the way of wool pads yet, no need for them yet).



    Polishing I would always just reach for a LC White pad and 106FA to start and if that was to aggressive (a la jet black bmw or honda paint) then I would go with the LC Black/Grey and 106FA or 85RD. I have always just gone with the crowd when it comes to polishing and correcting paint...this zero bite pad theory or now the superbee method intrigues me.



    I have several red/black/blue pads will really have to try my hand at polishing with a red pad....



    Thanks Supe





    Edit:

    Random thought, has anyone tried the LC Gold pad seen here at the bottom, with a final polish like 106FA or 85RD? Wonder what the results of that would be...

  8. #8

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    Oh god we coined another term here now LOL....

  9. #9
    Alex Boyce's Avatar
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    Great thread, really got me thinking.



    If I use 105 and PFW/Orange LC/Megs Yellow or Burg wool. I always find myself following up with 106ff/white or 205/white, just kinda turned into a habit. I only whip out a no bite pad and PO85rd or Ultrafina when I`m working on a soft clear or if there is any marring left from the white pad.



    I usually have fantastic results with white pads, but now that you have got me brain working maybe I`ll give the no bite method a spin around the block.
    Boyce Auto Detailing

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by bwalker25
    Edit:

    Random thought, has anyone tried the LC Gold pad seen here at the bottom, with a final polish like 106FA or 85RD? Wonder what the results of that would be...


    I recently used a CCS Gold pad with FPII and UF to burnish the paint on a car with a relatively soft clear. While I can`t claim night and day results, the reflections looked sharper afterwards. To tell the truth, I went overboard with the polishing, stepping down from Grey/M205 to Red/UF to Gold/UF or FPII.

  11. #11
    SuperBee364's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakerooni
    I`ve still never used PFW yet. Always meaning to pick one up to try it though. But it all comes down to the color of the paint for me. Usually my most aggressive combo is a finish twisted wool pad with a decent cut compound (Heavy/Med) I`ll go a couple passes (as needed) and then switch up to a polish wool finish combo again another couple passes (as needed) and then it`s over to the foam to finish down. I also like the zero bite pads for final glossing. Usually it`s UF pad with UF but I`ve been playing around alot with 205 and getting some great results there as well.


    Shoot... If I had a new one, I`d send it to you. JMO, but PFW`s are as much of a breakthrough as M105.



    Quote Originally Posted by VForce
    Thanks for this tid bit. I am going to do an exterior detail of my RX this weekend. It will be my first time ever using a DA and I was still up in the air on how I was going to do it. Thanks to your suggestion, I will likely use the M105 with the Meg`s Soft Buff 2.0 polishing pad and finish with M205 and Meg`s Soft Buff 2.0 finishing pad.



    Don`t worry, I`ll post pics of my before and after.


    Excellent.. I`m gonna be living vicariously through you guys the next few weeks, cause I won`t be detailing. Pictures would be great!



    Quote Originally Posted by craigdt
    Good little writeup there.



    You should say you are going to publish it, torturing us by saying you are perfecting it, call it the SBM, then finally release it to us mere mortals.



    I really have been doing a lot of reading on this jeweling method that you summarized nicely here. Im familiar with using a finishing pad with a finishing polish such as PO85, but am not too familiar with using a lighter polish with a finishing pad and then a finishing polish with a finishing pad.



    Is that what you are saying?



    Maybe it would help by posting your *preferred* steps in order with pad/polish combos.



    Nice job.


    Yeah, I can see how that can be a bit confusing, cause I didn`t really outline my "normal" procedure. I try to use my favorite two-step combination on most cars I detail. Step one is normally M105 and PFW with a rotary. This is my preferred first step, because you can do anything from very mild and gentle correction (just use little pressure and few passes) to heavy duty compounding (more pressure and more passes), and it finishes down nicely even on soft paints.



    Step two is *normally* Ultrafina with a zero bite pad. A lot of the time this will require two applications of UF to get out the compounding marks and holos from the first step, but UF is so fast and easy to use that two applications of UF only takes as much time as, say, one application of PO106FF. This second step is where I vary the polish and stay with a zero bite pad. I try to use the most gentle poilsh I can at this point that will still get the compounding marks and holos out, as (generally) the more gentle a polish is, the better gloss it`ll finish out with. And since I`m using a zero bite pad, the results I see are an accurate representation of what that polish can produce.



    Lately I`ve been trying to replace UF with M205 for the second step, because it has a lot more correcting ability than UF does. So far, I`ve only been able to get 205 to finish out holo free with a rotary on hard clears, but with a PC it finishes out beautifully. M205 with a PC is a *fantastic* combination. We can thank Kevin Brown and Meguiars for that one.



    Step three (for the customers that pay for it) is a dedicated jeweling step. Zero bite pad with a real jeweling polish like FPII or 85RD. Sometimes, M105/PFW will finish down so well (normally on really hard paints) that I can go straight to PO85RD/zero bite pad and jeweling.



    That`s the benefit of using 105 with a PFW; it`ll allow you to do two-step paint corrections the majority of the time.



    Unless I`m compounding, I`m using a zero bite pad.



    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar752
    Hmmm very interesting. I haven`t had the need to go past PFW/M105, but your theory with the finishing polish is interesting. I`m going to try it out tomorrow, I typically just use PO85RD and it brings the gloss up to an amazing level, I`ll try it on a Detailersdomain Blue Pad and then the Detailersdomain black wax pad and let you know if I see any difference.



    Thanks for your thoughts Supe :goodjob


    That would be great, I haven`t seen any posts about those pads.



    Thanks for the responses and input, guys, good stuff.
    Sage advice from Greg Nichols: "Hey, Supe? When you`re trying to get the air bubble out of your syringe of Opti-Coat, don`t point it at your face, mmmkay?"

  12. #12
    SuperBee364's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJF
    I recently used a CCS Gold pad with FPII and UF to burnish the paint on a car with a relatively soft clear. While I can`t claim night and day results, the reflections looked sharper afterwards. To tell the truth, I went overboard with the polishing, stepping down from Grey/M205 to Red/UF to Gold/UF or FPII.


    Man, I bet that looked sweet after all that jeweling. That sounds like a great progression to really bring out max gloss... 205 to UF to FPII. Rydawg would be proud.
    Sage advice from Greg Nichols: "Hey, Supe? When you`re trying to get the air bubble out of your syringe of Opti-Coat, don`t point it at your face, mmmkay?"

  13. #13
    SuperBee364's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMethod
    Great thread, really got me thinking.



    If I use 105 and PFW/Orange LC/Megs Yellow or Burg wool. I always find myself following up with 106ff/white or 205/white, just kinda turned into a habit. I only whip out a no bite pad and PO85rd or Ultrafina when I`m working on a soft clear or if there is any marring left from the white pad.



    I usually have fantastic results with white pads, but now that you have got me brain working maybe I`ll give the no bite method a spin around the block.


    Let us know how it works for you?



    I`m always nervous to suggest this kinda stuff in case it doesn`t work as well for others as it does for me. Either way, though, it`d be great to hear (and *see* ) your results.
    Sage advice from Greg Nichols: "Hey, Supe? When you`re trying to get the air bubble out of your syringe of Opti-Coat, don`t point it at your face, mmmkay?"

  14. #14
    Alex Boyce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperBee364
    Let us know how it works for you?



    I`m always nervous to suggest this kinda stuff in case it doesn`t work as well for others as it does for me. Either way, though, it`d be great to hear (and *see* ) your results.


    You shouldn`t be nervous about suggesting this "method". If it doesn`t cut enough for someone then they should know to step up their pad selection. I know Todd uses something along these lines, there was a video of him using PO85rd on Blue LC I think and he talked about having to apply pressure to get some cut because the pad wouldn`t cut by itself.
    Boyce Auto Detailing

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperBee364
    Man, I bet that looked sweet after all that jeweling. That sounds like a great progression to really bring out max gloss... 205 to UF to FPII. Rydawg would be proud.


    I`m honored by the comparison.



    The paint is graphite grey and it doesn`t exactly pop, unfortunately. The extended polishing made it more reflective and glossy than ever. M205 on a Grey CCS/Flex took out all the hairline scratches in the clear and was subjectively responsible for 75% of the final look. I varied the speed of the machine and the pressure to slightly burnish the finish during the last few (M205) passes.

 

 
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