PC or Griots or Rotary?

**Honda Peddler** · 07-12-2006, 03:10 AM

Well, I`m finally ready to splurge for a polisher for the new car but I`m a noob so I`ve got some questions.

First off, the car is brand new and pretty spotless with only some very minor scratches. It will probably be the only car that gets polished with whatever I get for quite some time.

So Porter Cable is pretty much the gold standard around here, but Griots has a new random orbital that`s reasonably priced and has some additional benefits like smaller size, etc. If I end up going the PC route I guess I`d get one of the kits with pads from Autogeek. Any thoughts there? Would a Orbital do just fine on minor scratches?

I`m also looking into going the rotary route with a Dewalt 849, etc. Is this complete overkill for a noob like me?

Thanks,

Bryn

**velobard** · 07-12-2006, 05:42 AM

I`m pretty much a noob too, but I`d vote for the PC. You`ll have your choice of backplates (as opposed to the one from Griot`s), and yes, with the rotary you`d likely be in over your head. You can get reasonably aggressive with the PC if necessary if you use 4" pads for trouble spots.

**imported_samjake** · 07-12-2006, 07:27 PM

You can have both tools in one with the Makita BO6040 Sander/Polisher, the Bosch 1250DEVS Dual-Mode Random Orbit Sander/Polisher, or the Festool Rotex RO 150/125.

**Accumulator** · 07-12-2006, 08:15 PM

I`d choose between the PC and the Cyclo.

**Honda Peddler** · 07-13-2006, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by samjake

You can have both tools in one with the Makita BO6040 Sander/Polisher, the Bosch 1250DEVS Dual-Mode Random Orbit Sander/Polisher, or the Festool Rotex RO 150/125.

I`ve heard of the Makita, but I fugured this type would be bulkier, and not as good as a seperate rotary, or orbital. Has anyone used them?

**Honda Peddler** · 07-13-2006, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

I`d choose between the PC and the Cyclo.

Have you used the Cyclo? I saw it online somewhere, that thing looks like it weighs 50lbs! Is it basically just two rotarys, or does it oscillate them both? I`ll have to search for this one when I have time this weekend to refresh my memory...

**imported_Lightman** · 07-13-2006, 02:39 PM

In my experience/research, there isn`t one tool that will do it all, although I don`t know much about the cyclo. Even with aggressive pads and polishes, the PC will not remove deeper swirls/scratches. On the flip side, it`s not typically recommended to use a rotary for final polishing or applying waxes/sealants. Most folks it would seem start with a pc and then eventually get a rotary as well. Accumulator I`m sure can chime in more on the cyclo, as I believe he has one.

**Honda Peddler** · 07-15-2006, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Lightman

Even with aggressive pads and polishes, the PC will not remove deeper swirls/scratches. On the flip side, it`s not typically recommended to use a rotary for final polishing or applying waxes/sealants.

So since it`s a new car and I don`t really have and deep scratches a rotary is not reccommended? I thought rotarys could do it all, they just take more skill to operate. I guess if I`m going to be doing mainly polishing and waxing on a new finish without any really visible scrathes I should go the orbital (or combo) route then?

**Beason** · 07-15-2006, 08:10 PM

PC to begin, then step up to to Rotary or Cyclo

**imported_themightytimmah** · 07-15-2006, 09:04 PM

I`d buy a Cyclo now, and step up to a rotary over time. VW paint is VERY hard, and working it with a PC can be really frustrating and turn you off from the whole detailing experience. You`re gonna want the rotary to cut out any serious scratches, and the Cyclo to finish/apply LSPs.

**Pennypacker** · 07-16-2006, 01:25 AM

I agree with themightytimmah. It`s really difficult getting swirls out of VWs, if that`s what you`re going to be using it on. The Cyclo`s more expensive, but the craftsmanship is top notch. It oscillates in a random motion, so in that regard is similar to a PC, and is also the reason why it`s safer for less experienced detailers than a rotary, which produces much more heat. Probably the only concern is that it`s bulkier than the PC, so can be somewhat harder to navigate in tight areas.

I think a rotary on a new car would be overkill in my less-than-expert opinion.

The Griot`s machine is limiting with respect to pad choice because of the backing plate issue, as was mentioned.

**Honda Peddler** · 07-17-2006, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by themightytimmah

I`d buy a Cyclo now, and step up to a rotary over time. VW paint is VERY hard, and working it with a PC can be really frustrating and turn you off from the whole detailing experience. You`re gonna want the rotary to cut out any serious scratches, and the Cyclo to finish/apply LSPs.

So if I don`t have any serious scratches (knock on wood) since the car is new then a Cyclo is preffered over the PC for applying waxes/sealants? Is the Cyclo a new tool? I haven`t heard much about it...

Who sells Cyclos? Who makes them?

Also what are LSPs? I can`t find the damn decoder ring!

**Honda Peddler** · 07-17-2006, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Pennypacker

The Griot`s machine is limiting with respect to pad choice because of the backing plate issue, as was mentioned.

So what`s the difference? I mean what backplate options are there for the PC and what do they give you? All they really are is a velcro plate that holds the pad right? Forgive my ignorance as I`ve never owned a PC, but why is the removable backplate such a huge feature?

I was mainly looking at the two from an ergonomic perspective and it looked like the Griots would be easier to "handle" due to the wraparound handle as opposed to the side handle on the PC. They also say it has a stronger motor, more RPMs (or OPMs), keeps the pad cooler, etc.

**Djmigs** · 07-17-2006, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by bfourney

So if I don`t have any serious scratches (knock on wood) since the car is new then a Cyclo is preferred over the PC for applying waxes/sealants? Is the Cyclo a new tool? I haven`t heard much about it...

Who sells Cyclos? Who makes them?

Also what are LSPs? I can`t find the damn decoder ring!

i wont say everyone will agree that the cyclo is preferred over the pc...it a matter of opinion.....again the pc is versatile in which you can have diff size of bp in order to accommodate diff size pads down to three inch or screw in the diff brushes for interior...the pc is good for polish to waxing...the cyclo is limited that the pads can not go any larger but the beauty of this machine is it will cut better then a pc plus it wont bog down under pressure as a pc plus you can add brush for interior work just note it a bulkier tool and wont get under certain areas...

Cyclo been around since the 50s anyone correct me if I`m wrong.....

Who make them check here

where can you order them well just about anywhere just shop around again you did mention about ordering from AG they sell them there.....

LSP stands for last step product if i remember right hehe!

again both these tools have the advantages and disadvantages...

if u order from AG talk to jason about this....

also i believe they have a thirty day return policy so if u cant decide then order both and then once you decide which to keep return the other....check to see if that possible with AG.....

**Accumulator** · 07-17-2006, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by bfourney

Have you used the Cyclo? I saw it online somewhere, that thing looks like it weighs 50lbs! Is it basically just two rotarys, or does it oscillate them both? I`ll have to search for this one when I have time this weekend to refresh my memory...

I`ve used the Cyclo for over 20 years. It`s a dual-headed random orbital. Lighter than it looks and very easy to handle (my late father loved it and I intro`ed him to it when he was around 80). I use it one handed with no problems at all, the ergonomics are great. Far less vibration than the PC.

There are some body panel contours the Cyclo won`t accommodate well (a few spots on my XJS come to mind) but generally this isn`t much of an issue. Don`t think it`ll be a problem on most vehicles; only car I run into this on is the XJS.

The Cyclo isn`t the best with some products (e.g., AIO) but works fine for polishing and waxing (I use it to apply, and remove with MF bonnets, paste wax all the time). I greatly prefer it over the PC but both have their good/bad points (I have two of each

). Most people I know who`ve tried both machines prefer the Cyclo.

The pad issue with the Griot`s is this IMO: the PC, a similar tool, only does effective serious correction with 4" pads. A lack of smaller pads for the Griot`s machine makes me question how well it will correct hard paint.

Don`t worry about handles, most people remove the handle from the PC anyhow as it transmits (and magnifies) vibration. Same with keeping the pad cool...none of these machines heat it up much at all and a little heat is a *good* thing, even with very mild applications. Much as I like Richard Griot, you gotta watch his ad copy`s hyperbole (to put it very politely and gently

).