Newbie with M105

**Todd@RUPES** · 10-05-2010, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by firebird

Ok so now here`s my question. I thought the scratches were as good as they were going to get so I finished the whole car with the LSP. But now I want to try the M105 again and I learned to not prime the pad and work it longer. If I want to spot treat the scratched area with the M105 again, can I just start with the M105 on the surbuf or do I have to strip the area of the LSP with an IPA wipedown? I would like to just start with the M105 on the surbuf. What can it hurt?

You don`t have to strip the area with an IPA wipedown, as the abrasives in the polish are going to remove the LSP almost immediately. However it`s not a bad idea to strip the finish anyways because when you abrade the finish (by polishing) and abrade the LSP, some of the LSP is going to get mixed into your polish and pad.

Some products don`t react well contaminated by other products. I always strip my surface with alcohol prior to polishing because I like to set as many variables in my favor as possible.

**imported_firebird** · 10-05-2010, 09:16 AM

Thanks Todd. Thanks for the compliment on the car. Yes, I always loved the `69 bodystyle. The car was repainted 15 years ago and I have no paint transfer on the pad or towel. Again, I will try the M205 on white pad. Should work!

**Todd@RUPES** · 10-05-2010, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by firebird

Ok, so one problem solved, another one born. The scratches are gone. Not priming the surbuf pad, working in small area and IPA worked. However; now I have those swirls, holograms or RIDS. Whatever they are called, I have them. I tried M205 and BFWD enchancing polish both on surbufs. I also tried a while ccs and flat pad. I have some Menz 106PF or whatever it`s called but it`s a finsihing polish like M205. How does I get rid of those marks? Thanks for your help so far...just one more problem to solve. Maybe I need to go back with M105 and orange pad?

Sometimes when detailing we have to take a step backwards before moving forward. To correct deeper defects we may have to use a procedure that is so abrasive that it leaves behind marring behind.

This is why, since the mid-90`s when PAC first started selling machine polishers, we have always recommended testing a small spot before and making sure you can get the results you want by dialing in a process that will work with your paint system. As long as companies have sold products that require `end user application` the idea of a inconspicuous test spot has been recommended.

With out knowing your exact technique and the exact paint system on your car it is hard to know exactly what you will need to remove the new (hopefully shallow) paint defects. However, you want to start with the least aggressive method to refine the paint. Also keep in mind that the Surfbuf pads can cause marks, so using a finer polish with them may remove the marks you currently have but replace them with marks that are indistinguishable from the prior ones.

If you are using good technique with the finer polishes (M205/GEP) and don`t have the bite to remove the new marks, then you may need something more abrasive. I think the idea of M105 and an orange pad is the next step up Focus on your technique, be patience, and inspect the results.

**Todd@RUPES** · 10-05-2010, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by firebird

Can you maybe explain the difference between hazing and rids/swirls/holograms to me? Bad thing is I think I tried M205 on white pad already and did nothing. I can try again. Should I use orange pad if the white pad isn`t enough? The MF towels I am using have never produced these results so I don`t think it`s the MF towels.

Hazing and holograms are both names for paint defects that occur in a certain pattern.

Holograms are unique because they have a very similar shape and pattern (from a pad spinning at significant speed) and can appear three dimensional in the paint.

Hazing is a broad term often used to describe when there is a lot of microscratches on the surface that noticabely dull the paint, because of there intense frequency. Hazing can be caused by a number of reasons, such as years of abuse with dirty towels or by machine polishing with an aggressive product.

RIDS or Random Isolated Deeper Scratches are often fine scratches that remain after swirl removal. Basically anything that remains after basic swirl removal. Some cars have no deeper marks and are a joy to polish, while some have some many marks that they are referred to as deep swirls.

I would try M205 and a white pad again, focusing on techinque. Speed 5 or 6, constant firm pressure, and SLOW arm speed. Most of the time problems can be corrected by tweaking technique.

If M205/white doesn`t work (or doesn`t show any improvement) then I would try M105/orange again focusing on technique.

**Todd@RUPES** · 10-05-2010, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by firebird

That`s where I really fall short. I have an iPhone and don`t know how to post pics no matter how I try to find out! I don`t own a digital camera. I can`t say it`s hazy. I know a pic would be great compared to me trying to explain in words. After viewing other posts on this forum, I would define them as holograms or just simply buffer trails. Just guessing as they are not really swirls......what would you do for holograms/buffer trails?

One thing to remember is that marring is marring (unless talking about the channels of deep scratches) and that names like buffer trails and holograms are usually used to describe the pattern in which the marring appears. Swirl marks are just another pattern of marring.

What matters is the depth of the marring (how much surrounding paint needs to be abraded away to smooth the surface) and how hard the paint is.

Regardless of the type of marring (whether the deeper scratches earlier or the more frequent type left behind) the best advice to start with the least abrasive method possible and work up in aggressiveness until you find what works best for your unique situation.

If you are new to machine polishing I would really focus on perfecting your technique.

This link my give you a better visualization of the different patterns of marring.

Types of Paint Marring

**imported_firebird** · 10-05-2010, 10:08 AM

Awesome info Todd, thx so much. Very helpful. The marks are for sure hologramms.

**imported_firebird** · 10-06-2010, 06:15 PM

Yahoooooooooooooooooooooooooo! No more holograms. The M205 and white pad did it on speed 6 going with slow arm motion. Topped it today with BFWD and it looks awesome! Thanks again everyone! :hurray:

**imported_Flash Gordon** · 10-06-2010, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by firebird

Yahoooooooooooooooooooooooooo! No more holograms. The M205 and white pad did it on speed 6 going with slow arm motion. Topped it today with BFWD and it looks awesome! Thanks again everyone! :hurray:

I love it when a plan comes together

Regards,

John "Hannibal" Smith :soldier:

**bmw5541** · 10-06-2010, 07:22 PM

I am very happy to see that it worked out for you. This is the reason that we have a place like TID. If there is something that we need help with, we have a lot of great people here to lend a hand.
If you can get some pictures up, I would love to see how it came out.

**imported_firebird** · 10-06-2010, 07:27 PM

Thx Barry. I am very excited as you can probably tell. I only have an iPhone so if I can even figure that out I will post pics. Otherwise, I think a digital will be on the Xmas list!

**bmw5541** · 10-06-2010, 07:42 PM

Actually, you can e-mail the pics from your iPhone to your PC. Once this is done, save it to a folder that you will remember. Then create a Photobucket account and upload it to Photobucket. Once you have it up on PB, you can easily insert them into your posts.

If you need help with this, send me a PM.