Need more aggressive machine than ROB, Flex vs Rotary

**ahheck01** · 05-29-2011, 02:57 AM

I`ve used my PC on many many cars, and for the tougher jobs, it just takes waaaay too long. I spend enough time on cars that don`t matter to practice with a rotary, as I`ve heard there`s a learning curve. That said, I`m trying to figure out what the best bang for the buck is.

What are the biggest pro`s con`s of each? What model of each would you recommend, for someone very budget conscious but making an investment?

I`ll probably be selling my PC and buying the Griot`s 6" based on what I`ve read here, too.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer!

**the other pc** · 05-29-2011, 09:44 AM

Then again, if you try Meg`s microfiber DA system, you might find you don`t need a new machine.

pc

**JohnKleven** · 05-29-2011, 09:56 AM

The Flex is a great machine, but a rotary does everything anybody needs. I would get a rotary, if taught correctly the learning curve is not that tough.

John

**Dan** · 05-29-2011, 10:48 AM

Best bang for the buck is to grab a Harbor Freight $40 rotary and practice on some beaters. I think the flex is a good in between but its pricey and I don`t know of many pros that use them. I think the GG6 is so powerful that I don`t find myself needing something in between. IMO the learning curve on a rotary can be mitigated by using lots of tape and staying far away from plastic. As long as you don`t use extremely aggressive compounds to learn with, you will be fine. I`d recommend using something like megs #66 to learn with, its very easy to use with a rotary.

**ahheck01** · 05-29-2011, 12:55 PM

Hmm. Well I`m used to using the PC - will the GG6 be that much more effective for cutting than a PC? If I were to just use one machine and get really really good at using it, would I be better off with a rotary or the GG6?

Also, as for rotaries, what are the compromises of a $40 rotary vs a $150 or $300 one?

Thanks!

**Thomas Dekany** · 05-29-2011, 01:01 PM

I`d first ask you what product/pad combos you are using. How long does it take you to do a car?

**ahheck01** · 05-29-2011, 01:05 PM

I`ve been out of the game for a good 8 months, so I`m going to refresh most everything. I was using Menzerna IP and FP primarily with the LC hydro pads (which I hated, fell apart soooo fast), and typically went straight to collonite insulator wax (forget the number - yellowish liquid with insulator wax on label in red). I want to have a much more effecient and effective process, so if I need to go to the SSR1-2.5 etc and use a rotary with foam pads or whatever, I`m open minded. I have a lot of learning to do before making purchases, but hoping you all can help.

**Accumulator** · 05-29-2011, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Ahheck01

Hmm. Well I`m used to using the PC - will the GG6 be that much more effective for cutting than a PC?

Yes. My GG is infinitely more effective than either of my PCs.

If I were to just use one machine and get really really good at using it, would I be better off with a rotary or the GG6?

IF you can truly master the rotary, it`d probably be the better choice. But IMO that`s one very big "if" and FWIW I hardly ever touch either of my rotaries any more; I use my Flex 3401 for really aggressive work and my GG 6" or the Cyclos for most everything else. The only time I use the rotaries is when I need to employ rocks-in-a-bottle compounds and that is hardly ever the case.

Also, as for rotaries, what are the compromises of a $40 rotary vs a $150 or $300 one?

Good ones maintain a constant speed regardless of load, that`s probably the big diff. Also, different rotaries offer different minimum speeds, which may be an important factor. I have a Metabo and a Makita...neither is "better", they`re just different, but both maintain the desired speed and that`s important to me.

**Thomas Dekany** · 05-29-2011, 01:15 PM

Order some HD UNO, (get the UNO/POXY combo) get some orange and either PFW or TufBuf Black Natural Lambswool Polishing Pad [TUFB-01] - $2.09 : MICRO-SURFACE FINISHING PRODUCTS, INC these wool pads and you will cut a lot of time from polishing. Try that with the pc. If still not satisfied get a GG pc.

**Accumulator** · 05-29-2011, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Ahheck01

I want to have a much more effecient and effective process..

Either the Flex 3401 or the GG 6" would be a huge step forward IMO, especially if you use one of the newer (and incredibly user-friendly) systems like the Optimum Hyper Compound/Polish twins or the new Meguiars` MF-based system.

Nice learning curves too, you`d be turning out great work in no time with minimal chances of an "oops!".

**Thomas Dekany** · 05-29-2011, 01:25 PM

PS: Order 5" pads.

Of all the machines I`d suggest the flex for efficiency. With the rotary you`ll need additional steps so it may not save time. m2c

**Accumulator** · 05-29-2011, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by tdekany

PS: Order 5" pads...

If sticking with the PC I`d go so far as to say "order 4" pads". The 5-5.5" ones never worked all that well for me (that`s the size I started PCing with way back when).

Of all the machines I`d suggest the flex for efficiency. With the rotary you`ll need additional steps so it may not save time. m2c

Yeah....I agree. But some people don`t like the feel, or the "recoil" of the Flex 3401 (even though it never bothered me). I find it hard to say whether somebody`d like the Flex or the GG better :think: :nixweiss

**ahheck01** · 05-29-2011, 01:41 PM

The Flex is $320, the GG is $110, so if they`re close, that makes things easy.

The question is whether investing in tools/pads/compounds for that is worth it, or if I`ll ultimately wish I just went for the rotary. I just hate that feeling of being stuck with insufficient cutting power.

The other concern I have is the size thing. I feel like a rotary with a small pad is much easier to use to aggressively target thinner body panels of the 2-4" wide variety. Secondary to that is the counterweight/backing plate issue that requires you to break down the device each time you need to change the size of pad you`re using - which is probably multiple times per detail given the different stages.

Thoughts?

**Dan** · 05-30-2011, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Good ones maintain a constant speed regardless of load, that`s probably the big diff.

While that certainly is true, the great thing about the Harbor Freight NOT keeping a constant speed is that you have an audible indicator of your pad pressure. Once you set your desired "speed" you are forced to keep even pressure to keep that speed. And when you are learning, that is a good thing. Would I like a better rotary, sure would, but as long as my HF keeps churning along, I can`t justify getting a better machine. I`ve had it for five or six years now, so it has already paid for itself.

**JohnKleven** · 05-30-2011, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by yakky

While that certainly is true, the great thing about the Harbor Freight NOT keeping a constant speed is that you have an audible indicator of your pad pressure. Once you set your desired "speed" you are forced to keep even pressure to keep that speed. And when you are learning, that is a good thing. Would I like a better rotary, sure would, but as long as my HF keeps churning along, I can`t justify getting a better machine. I`ve had it for five or six years now, so it has already paid for itself.

I am constantly training my guys on proper paint correction. The problem with a China Harbor rotary polisher is that you don`t have a variable speed trigger. "Control is everything" when using a rotary, and that requires constant change of speeds via the trigger. You`re not going to burn paint on a flat panel, you`re going to burn paint with the edge of your pad, not being aware of your surroundings. It takes a while to train on this, as every car is different, but knowing just how to attack each and every panel is extremely important.

John