The "Truth"

[Garry Dean]

Honestly, I tried... I just could not match the gloss I was getting with the pc...



It`s a monster for cutting, but I do not prefer it for finishing.

[imported_WhyteWizard]

Honestly, I tried... I just could not match the gloss I was getting with the pc...



It`s a monster for cutting, but I do not prefer it for finishing.

Good thing it`s dual mode.



Robert

[David Fermani]

From my understanding, this machine only allows use with 6 inch pads right? If that`s the case, that wouldn`t be viable option for me as I enjoy working with 5 inch pads too much. Larger pads are ok for large panels, but I still don`t reach for them as they tend to not cut as much as 5 inchers. Regardless, this machine really looks like a solid unit.

[Accumulator]

Ok, I have mentioned how much I like the bo6040 for cutting, but now I am attempting to polish with it and I am seeing better results from my PC...



I just cant seem to get the Makita with a white pad to produce the same gloss as the PC with a white B&S pad on speed 4. It seems like the PC is finishing better... I will keep you all posted.

Is that with the BO6040 in forced-rotation or RO?



I`m guessing it`s in RO mode, as I wouldn`t *expect* the forced-rotation to finish as well (my Flex 3401 sure doesn`t finish as well as a PC/GG/Cyclo).

[imported_WhyteWizard]

From my understanding, this machine only allows use with 6 inch pads right? If that`s the case, that wouldn`t be viable option for me as I enjoy working with 5 inch pads too much. Larger pads are ok for large panels, but I still don`t reach for them as they tend to not cut as much as 5 inchers. Regardless, this machine really looks like a solid unit.

I think the reason a 5 inch pad might cut faster on a random orbital is that you`re putting more pressure per square inch with the smaller pad. The forced rotation machine creates a lot more movement out on the edge of the pad due to spin so it cuts faster with a bigger pad and I apply a lot of pressure.



The Makita can finish down to cobweb free by running the product till there`s just enough left to keep the pad from scuffing.



Robert

[SVR]

:nomore:Eight pages for this - geez. good fun reading it



The 6040 has been available in Australia for decades but at 650 bucks, I dont think so

Great tool I am sure. my problem with it is the OPM, if it had the same OPM range as the Makita BO6030 (use that currently for last step or the entire process) or the Metabo SXE450 which I am buying next (6mm and 2.8mm throw), then the 6040 would be a better tool I`d say



the 6030 is 4,000 to 11,000 with 3mm throw. the metabo is 4,000 to 11,000 and up to 13,000 with turbo button.

whack a surbuf, microfibre, rayon or other strong pad on either and they can correct and finish brilliantly without a wipedown needed. same goes for rotary too. I run at 600 to 1000 max and back to 600 slowly as I work the product. absolutely no need for anything more than 1200 rpm today, on any paint.



have two dynabrades also.



Todd - you blow me away with your technical mind. the makita vs flex numbers was over my head but that`s cool. kudos to you sir



As for D300 - no idea if its filling. I dont use the well known products on the market and wont



Paint is porous to some point (solvents wouldnt outgas if they werent) and a product with alot of petroleum oils can with the use of a rotary, swell the paint if the heat is high enough and the oils can be absorbed. think that is whats going on. master kev may correct me if I am wrong (do not know it all thats for sure)



With an RO or DA, I would say that it is less likely due to very little heat or none being developed most often



As for wipedowns - I haven`t done IPA or silicone remover wipedowns for a few years, there is just no need too anymore with the products I`m using. no solvents, thickener, heavy oils or emulsifier etc in them. it`s a totally new formula. stuffs as runny as water



though I am doing a massive polish test for my column in Australasian paint and panel magazine (which the editor asked me too) and I agree with my mate porta - silicone remover is a great product to use to test for filling. I have some de beer SR in my shop



come on guys keep it simple hey.

unfortunately there are too many products with outdated formulas. most are exactly that



You dont absolutely have to be a rocket scientist to get a great finish these days. no stress if you under or over work the industry leading products. very forgiving and no nasty ingredients

better pad priming and technique will however win out but the gap is much smaller now.



polishing is supposed to be fun guys, dont overcomplicate it and make it stressful

[Accumulator]

I think the reason a 5 inch pad might cut faster on a random orbital is that you`re putting more pressure per square inch with the smaller pad...

I always thought it was because you could apply more pressure without the machine bogging down (due to less friction from the smaller pad). When I tried using the same/minimal applied pressure with smaller pads they didn`t cut much, if any, better than the bigger ones :think:



Maybe *both* things factor in :nixweiss

polishing is supposed to be fun guys...

Fun?!? Oh you crazy Autopian you.... :chuckle:

[SVR]

you got that right mate - I am crazy - about polishing anyhow. it`s very theraputic for me

[imported_ww2717]

"Its the truth TRUTH"



Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[imported_Picus]

I`ve never really understood why guys are so obsessed with finding fillers in products. Just properly remove any oils from the surface and you have nothing to worry about. The only time I ever had issues with fillers was PO106FF, and that was because even IPA sometimes wouldn`t remove all the oils. Eventually I found a product that would, problem solved. I use D300 a lot. Have I seen it fill? Sure. I`ve seen just about everything fill to some extent. Clean the surface properly to see what you`re really dealing with then move on.

[David Fermani]

I`ve never really understood why guys are so obsessed with finding fillers in products. Just properly remove any oils from the surface and you have nothing to worry about. The only time I ever had issues with fillers was PO106FF, and that was because even IPA sometimes wouldn`t remove all the oils. Eventually I found a product that would, problem solved. I use D300 a lot. Have I seen it fill? Sure. I`ve seen just about everything fill to some extent. Clean the surface properly to see what you`re really dealing with then move on.

Agreed! Do another pass or 2 and you`re good to go.

[Garry Dean]

9+ pages of craziness...

[imported_Picus]

Agreed! Do another pass or 2 and you`re good to go.

hah. I see what you did there. I guess it all depends on the marring you`re dealing with, the paint you`re working on etc.. When I use D300 I use it knowing it will do what I need it to do. I don`t stretch it or try to make it do things I know it can`t. That`s what other products are for.

[imported_RZJZA80]

9+ pages of craziness...

How`s the video coming along?

[Jason Rose]

Wow. Garry Dean....sorry your thread got hi-jacked. But I have to admit, I was engaged in the reading...and find the comments quite intersting. I have enormous respect for you Garry. So, I guess it`s sorry, and thanks...at the same time.



On topic...(have to get this comment out of the way first! haha)...The Makita BO6040 is a great machine. Used it many times. As switchables go, it offers good performance for the price point. Especially if you want to do sanding AND polishing with it. The orbit size and the speed range does very well for both sanding and polishing. You can find better sanders, and you can find better polishers...but this tool does both well.



The other topic...D300. D300 fills? Covers up swirls? Absolutely not. And of course it can. Truth! Both are true. I was lead on the development team so I know the product very well. I have also had the benefit of seeing the product in use in 9 different countries...different paints, different users, lots of variables. Rants and raves and pros and cons about D300 have been posted on every detail forum globally. So I`ve heard it all. Seen it all.



There is nothing inherant in D300 that is a filler. There is no intention, from product profile design to full scale production to global launch in 72 countries...no intention ever of having this product fill defects. It was made to remove them. That`s what it does best. (Don`t read into this statement...I`m not saying its the best. I`m saying...of all that it does, it removes defects best.)



Did Thomas experience defects come back after a wash? Did Barry see filling happen with D300? I don`t/won`t dispute either one. I 100% believe them. I don`t doubt it one bit. I`ve seen it myself. But I do not make the leap to a conclusion that the product is therefore bad. That the product fills? That D300 should be something you have to be careful about because it will hide all your defects everytime you use it? Guys, do you think a product that consistently fills defects all the time would ever make it to a second-purchase by savy detailers? The product would have died in the first 3 months after launch.



Here`s the deal. There are compounds and polishes that fill defects. The creator meant for them to fill and they have ingredients that cover defects. That`s bucket one. Bucket two are compounds and polishes that are not intended to cover defects. They don`t have fillers. These bucket two products have potential to cover defects, even though they were not intended to. The "filling" that happens in this case has less to do with the liquid product itself and more to do with two very powerful variables that impact everything anyone ever does while removing paint defects. All results are influenced by these two things; (1) the paint, specifically the paint porosity, elasticity, and topcoat hardness. (2) technique, how the user uses the liquid, machine, pad, backing plate, etc. Technique can further be dissected by five parts in everybody`s technique with machine polishing (rotary or DA)...(1) tool speed, (2) arm speed, (3) downward pressure, (4) pad angle, and (5) application area. Watch anyone machine polish a car, and you will see variability in these 5 parts of technique. All of them together, influence the results.



If/when you find a car that D300 "fills" defects, you have also found a car that many other compounds and polishes may also act like they are filling. That paint might like a different chemistry, so some products will not cover up defects on that car. Some will. Unfortunately for us detailers, paint is a variable. The scope of its variability would blow your mind if you knew how vastly different paint truely is around the world. There exists a gazillion compounds and polishes out there...the business is sustainable for two reasons. Humans LIKE options. And paint NEEDS options. One size does not fit all.



As for technique...I can make D300 cover...not remove...defects on 10 cars in a row. Maybe even a 100. I dunno. I would hate to try it just to prove a point. I can also do the same with a competitors polish or compound. Does that make the product bad? Make it a filler product? No, just means I was doing something in the application process that got that result...repeatedly. Here....I will tell you how to make D300 fill defects. Fast tool speed, fast arm speed, light pressure, pad slightly tilted, and big application area. Hose on a lot of D300 on the pad and you have guaranteed cover up. You can do this technique on a deck lid for 3 days and you will get very shiny defect free paint...right up to the moment you wash it. Other ways to get it to fill? Use it with a foam pad. Use it with a rotary. The D300 compound was painstakingly tuned for DA application and Meguiar`s DMC Microfiber Cutting Disc with specific backing plates. Period. End of story. And it does have a specific technique for best consistent results. Any other application method could result in something unintended, perhaps unpredictable, certainly not properly validated. Good or bad results....going outside the system is play time. Play to your hearts content, but then don`t tell me the product doesn`t work if you don`t get the result you were looking for.



Garry, did I mention I like the Makita tool? (Sorry, I couldn`t pass on the chance to educate here.)



Folks may not agree with what I have said. Some may not like me for saying it the way I did. But my heart is in a good place. The spirit of my message is that I sincerely want to help detailers understand their results better. There are 10 variables that impact machine polishing results. Most people like to focus on the liquid product. What about the other 9?



Hope this helps raise awareness.

Jason