UPDATE!! Current Dual Action Polisher Comparison - Garry Dean - Tampa, FL

[Kevin Brown]

To hone back in on what has been said and discussed ... if you had to choose 1 DA polisher to use, for a typical consumer [autopian weekend warrior or hobbyist], which polisher would it be?

I regularly use the Meguiar`s G110v2. I have not yet tried the HD machine.



Two important points about the Meguiar`s G110v2:



• Cruise Control Circuitry

This feature attempts to maintain backing plate rotational speed as increased load is placed upon the machine. It does work, and is helpful particularly at low to midrange speed settings.



• Accurate Speed Dial

Sounds like a minor detail, but it`s not. My trusty Meguiar`s G100 (actually a Porter Cable 7424) really jumps in speed when the dial is turned from 5 to 5.5. It`s as if a booster motor engages at 5.5..!



While there were some issues with switches and cords on some earlier units, I`m not seeing this occur with the latest generation of machines. Even though the design has been around for quite some time, there have been several unannounced changes made to the G110v2 (compare a brand new model to a 2-year old machine, and you`ll see the subtle differences).



Finally, while I will say that I think there may be torquier machines available touting higher speeds, it`s been my experience performance can vary QUITE a bit from one machine to the next. In fact, a few months back I clocked no-load speeds of 6,450 RPM on my G110 (a several year old unit), 6,300 or so with my G110v2 (a 2-year old model), and 5,800 RPM with a Griot`s 10765). A month ago, my friend Jason clock a similar unit spinning at 13,000 RPM (which dropped to a measly 3,600 RPM under load.



I like and recommend the G110v2, but keep in mind that my opinion is biased!

I am a Meguiar`s dealer, and have used G110v2 machines for hundreds of hours, over a number of years.



If you decide to purchase one, they can be had for as little as $142.95 at ADS, or $149 via Amazon (free shipping, too!). I sell them for quite a bit more, but I do offer a very nice package deal with your choice of liquid, pad, and backing plate options. It is available here.

[fmodena]

I regularly use the Meguiar`s G110v2. I have not yet tried the HD machine.



Two important points about the Meguiar`s G110v2:



• Cruise Control Circuitry

This feature attempts to maintain backing plate rotational speed as increased load is placed upon the machine. It does work, and is helpful particularly at low to midrange speed settings.



• Accurate Speed Dial

Sounds like a minor detail, but it`s not. My trusty Meguiar`s G100 (actually a Porter Cable 7424) really jumps in speed when the dial is turned from 5 to 5.5. It`s as if a booster motor engages at 5.5..!



While there were some issues with switches and cords on some earlier units, I`m not seeing this occur with the latest generation of machines. Even though the design has been around for quite some time, there have been several unannounced changes made to the G110v2 (compare a brand new model to a 2-year old machine, and you`ll see the subtle differences).



Finally, while I will say that I think there may be torquier machines available touting higher speeds, it`s been my experience performance can vary QUITE a bit from one machine to the next. In fact, a few months back I clocked no-load speeds of 6,450 RPM on my G110 (a several year old unit), 6,300 or so with my G110v2 (a 2-year old model), and 5,800 RPM with a Griot`s 10765). A month ago, my friend Jason clock a similar unit spinning at 13,000 RPM (which dropped to a measly 3,600 RPM under load.



I like and recommend the G110v2, but keep in mind that my opinion is biased!

I am a Meguiar`s dealer, and have used G110v2 machines for hundreds of hours, over a number of years.



If you decide to purchase one, they can be had for as little as $142.95 at ADS, or $149 via Amazon (free shipping, too!). I sell them for quite a bit more, but I do offer a very nice package deal with your choice of liquid, pad, and backing plate options. It is available here.

Hi Kevin. Thanks for posting this about the "cruise control" as I was curious in Garry`s video where he stated he was able to stall the G110V2 on speed 6 but the video is a little fuzzy and was hard to see if the backing plate actually stopped or not.



To me it was hard to tell as there was no black mark on the yellow backing plate to discern the actual spinning under extreme pressure. As per an earlier post by you, it was stated that at lower speeds is where the cruise control really comes into play since there is less centrifugal force to create the rotation of the backing plate.



How much effect does the "cruise control" utilize at the speed 6? Thank you Kevin and thank you Garry for taking the time to post your video comparison.

[Kevin Brown]

Hi Kevin. Thanks for posting this about the "cruise control" as I was curious in Garry`s video where he stated he was able to stall the G110V2 on speed 6 but the video is a little fuzzy and was hard to see if the backing plate actually stopped or not.



To me it was hard to tell as there was no black mark on the yellow backing plate to discern the actual spinning under extreme pressure. As per an earlier post by you, it was stated that at lower speeds is where the cruise control really comes into play since there is less centrifugal force to create the rotation of the backing plate.



How much effect does the "cruise control" utilize at the speed 6? Thank you Kevin and thank you Garry for taking the time to post your video comparison.

I am not an electrical or mechanical engineer, so I`m counting on experience gained using the machine (and some brain power). I`d say that at speed 6, there is likely to be little to no effect if the machine was being placed under the type of load Garry was putting on it. Seems reasonable to me that in order for Cruise Control Circuitry to properly function:



A) There has to be a reservoir of energy available to the motor, or



The motor`s RPM must be limited, so that there will be additional RPM available, should there be a need to boost RPM to increase centripetal force (thus restoring backing plate rotation).



Really, the G110v2`s cruise control would have to work similarly to a cruise control installed on a typical car. Imagine you were driving along at maximum speed (not limited by an intelligent electronic governor), and encountered an uprising hill. If there was no reserve power or additional RPM available from the engine, there would be no way to maintain the previous maximum speed. The motor would have to have some sort or reserve available (an intelligent electronic governor could limit engine RPM, and lift the limit if there was a need to resotre a predetermined "maximum" speed, under reasonable load conditions).



Back to the machine.



Storage capacitors could supply some energy, but they would drain rather quickly, and would have to be re-energized in order to supply another burst of current. From what I know about capacitance, there`s not much room (if any) inside the machine to mount capacitors that would make any sort of long-term difference.



Regardless, the Cruise Control Circuitry must be comparing motor RPM to load (aka electrical impedance) in order to know when more load was placed upon the machine. It would then have to allow more electrical current to flow to or through the motor. There is no real way to guarantee restoration of backing plate rotation, because backing plate rotation is not mechanically driven (it is created by rotational or centripetal force). Instead, the circuitry must be trying to restore motor speed, which will then create enough momentum to spin the backing plate.



Again though, depending upon the force placed upon the machine, and depending upon the type of pad and compound being used in any particular situation (grippy, abrasive, slippery, tall, short, etc.), there is a limit to the abilities of any machine. In regards to the G110v2... the power of its motor, combined with its gearing ratio (used to create up the final drive ratio of the rotating counterweight & spindle assembly) is apparently not capable of overcoming the forces that Garry was placing upon it.



Obviously (I hope), nobody polishes paint in this manner, and more often than not, you`ll get much better results using slower rather than faster speeds. This is especially true when the task at hand is final polishing. In fact, I think guys are having more trouble finessing paint rather than cutting defects away. Drop those speeds, keep those pads clean!



In the end... we all know that Garry was simply trying to show how strong he was anyway. I`m waiting to see his rotary review next. I can see the opening scene now: Close-up shot of a dented-in wall. The dent resembles the backside of a man. Pan out to a bloodied and bruised Garry Dean, eye taped shut, cast on his right arm. "Hi, I`m Gary Dean, and I just went for a ride. This new-fangled rotary just tossed me into that wall over there with the force of a freakin` freight train..!"

[Garry Dean]

I enjoy all of the attention I am getting from this, I can`t lie.



I just wanted to reiterate my point in this video... It was to show how well all of the polishers act under load. It seemed to be what people were talking about at the time...



I also do not condone anyone polishing any painted surface with that much pressure... Thats the reason I used my beat up work truck to shoot the video instead of something nice. The video was to show all of the machines doing exactly the same thing.



Firm, medium pressure is generally all that is needed to get great cutting results with todays polish and pad options.



I feel that they all have their place and I definitely was not trying to bash any of them. I personally enjoy the power of the new HD machine, but I believe I can get similar results from any other machine having a little knowledge of how to use them.



We are way off track and many of you still seem to misunderstand the purpose of the video.



BTW, we are getting some good play over at AG. I guess my controversial video was able to do one thing positive... It got Autopia.org some attention.



Stay tuned for more videos.

[tuscarora dave]

Pan out to a bloodied and bruised Garry Dean, eye taped shut, cast on his right arm. "Hi, I`m Gary Dean, and I just went for a ride. This new-fangled rotary just tossed me into that wall over there with the force of a freakin` freight train..!"[/I]

That`s too funny Kevin.



Concerning the G110V2, my initial impression of the machine was a really good one. However, I was trapped in the house because of a severe snow storm with 4 feet of drifted snow during my initial testing of the machine. I ran all over the house polishing household items such as the tub/shower surround, range hood and finally settled on an old chrome plated canister cabinet that held coffee, tea, flour and sugar in it`s hay day. I actually did the review with photos of me polishing the chrome cabinet with M-105 and 4" foam pads.:sick:



After the storm when I actually got some compounding and polishing time with the G110V2 on a few cars and my feelings of the machine changed to an opinion that the machine was a toy that was only good for working with 4" pads. Fast forward a few years and my opinion has yet changed again. Now after learning how to run the machine or maybe a better way to say it is "after learning how the machine likes to be run" I have no problem running a 5" pad on it and on some panels I am surprised that it does actually spin a 6 inch pad pretty well. I think the G110V2 is a pretty solid machine but I can`t wait to get my hands on the new HD polisher to test it out too.



My first polisher was a Cyclo and for a 3000 OPM machine it is very hard to stop the rotation of that machine. I`ve often thought that if I were walking down a beach and discovered a magic lamp and a genie popped out and granted me one wish, I`d wish for a single head, 7000 OPM version of a Cyclo polisher made with the same standard of quality that the dual head Cyclo polisher is made with.



Just some of my thoughts while having my morning java.:ignore

[cleanscape]

Wow!!!!!!!



All of this from a video or two? Yes I have watched both. Did I form my own opinion, of course, but who cares. It will help some, others will not care for it. I`m sure most of us use diffrent products from diffrent vendors, visit diffrent online forums, watch diffrent tv shows. What we don`t need to do is accuse anyone of short changing anyone thier view of a product cause of who they may or may not do business with. Thats like telling a pro wrestler his wrestling is fake, yes predetermined but have you or anyone you may know ever get in the ring and bodyslammed or suplexed nightly for a living, think not.

[nyakerz]

I sense passion whenever I watch Garry`s videos. He shows more of the detailing enthusiast in him. I am saying that in a good way. You can really see him genuinely impressed by a product. English is not my primary language, but I think you call it "like a kid opening Christmas presents. The alleged partiality that others see in this particular video may be caused by Garry`s good character. He really holds a lot back when he is stating "the con(s)", not because he is biased but because he really does not want to offend as much as possible. He wants to be respectful as much as possible. I will not take it against him. I do not know the man quite well, but that`s how I judge him as a person.



Keep creating videos Garry. We appreciate the time and effort you put into them. Time is very valuable, and you are allotting your time to share your knowledge and thoughts to others. Of course, you have the right to receive something back by plugging in your products. If a seller can make a commercial for its product, I don`t see any reason why you can`t mention yours in a review of a product sold by others.

[SSizzlin']

I regularly use the Meguiar`s G110v2. I have not yet tried the HD machine.



Two important points about the Meguiar`s G110v2:



• Cruise Control Circuitry

This feature attempts to maintain backing plate rotational speed as increased load is placed upon the machine. It does work, and is helpful particularly at low to midrange speed settings.



• Accurate Speed Dial

Sounds like a minor detail, but it`s not. My trusty Meguiar`s G100 (actually a Porter Cable 7424) really jumps in speed when the dial is turned from 5 to 5.5. It`s as if a booster motor engages at 5.5..!



While there were some issues with switches and cords on some earlier units, I`m not seeing this occur with the latest generation of machines. Even though the design has been around for quite some time, there have been several unannounced changes made to the G110v2 (compare a brand new model to a 2-year old machine, and you`ll see the subtle differences).



Finally, while I will say that I think there may be torquier machines available touting higher speeds, it`s been my experience performance can vary QUITE a bit from one machine to the next. In fact, a few months back I clocked no-load speeds of 6,450 RPM on my G110 (a several year old unit), 6,300 or so with my G110v2 (a 2-year old model), and 5,800 RPM with a Griot`s 10765). A month ago, my friend Jason clock a similar unit spinning at 13,000 RPM (which dropped to a measly 3,600 RPM under load.



I like and recommend the G110v2, but keep in mind that my opinion is biased!

I am a Meguiar`s dealer, and have used G110v2 machines for hundreds of hours, over a number of years.



If you decide to purchase one, they can be had for as little as $142.95 at ADS, or $149 via Amazon (free shipping, too!). I sell them for quite a bit more, but I do offer a very nice package deal with your choice of liquid, pad, and backing plate options. It is available here.

I find the Griot`s to provide noticeably smoother polishing than the G110v2. Same with with HD polisher. Just sayin`....

[C. Charles Hahn]

Hi Kevin. Thanks for posting this about the "cruise control" as I was curious in Garry`s video where he stated he was able to stall the G110V2 on speed 6 but the video is a little fuzzy and was hard to see if the backing plate actually stopped or not.



To me it was hard to tell as there was no black mark on the yellow backing plate to discern the actual spinning under extreme pressure. As per an earlier post by you, it was stated that at lower speeds is where the cruise control really comes into play since there is less centrifugal force to create the rotation of the backing plate.



How much effect does the "cruise control" utilize at the speed 6? Thank you Kevin and thank you Garry for taking the time to post your video comparison.

Actually I find the cruise control feature to be quite effective. I shot a video a while back demonstrating the machine`s performance under the pressure of most of my body weight (with the speed dial at 4) and it did not stop rotating.



What this tells me is one of two things. Either I`m just not very strong, or my G110v2 has a lot more power than Garry`s does.







So obviously, your results may vary.

[SSizzlin']

BTW, we are getting some good play over at AG.

.

I stuck up for you, homeboy!

[Thomas Dekany]

Hey Charles, put the same foam pad Garry used and see what happens. Let us know please

Actually I find the cruise control feature to be quite effective. I shot a video a while back demonstrating the machine`s performance under the pressure of most of my body weight (with the speed dial at 4) and it did not stop rotating.



What this tells me is one of two things. Either I`m just not very strong, or my G110v2 has a lot more power than Garry`s does.







So obviously, your results may vary.

[SSizzlin']

Hey Charles, put the same foam pad Garry used and see what happens. Let us know please

I thought about that, too.

[autoconcierge]

Barry, you always give me so much credit and respect online, which I truly appreciate.



I am in agreement with you in regards to Tunch. Although I know very little about him, upon spending several hours at the 3D Open House After Dinner Party last year, I went away really liking and respecting the man. I hope for great things for him and his company.



Finally, while I understand why some guys are pretty riled up over things written in regards to Garry`s points, I think it borders on ridiculous to tell a guy to essentially move on to another forum for injecting his point of view. Are you kidding me? We`re trying to build UP participation on autopia.org, not shoo guys away. AG is smoking every detailing forum out there, Facebook is garnering loads of attention (I use it often myself ), and newbies are afraid to post for fear of looking the fool.



Have the debate... stick up for a guy... defend your points if you must. Heck, an ear flicking and shoulder bump here and there is fine, once in awhile. If a guy is posting just to make trouble, he`ll eventually be banned or leave on his own. Sometimes though, a guy that seems to rile folks up ends up becoming a mainstay in our industry. Names, anyone?

I feel a bit out of place "soapboxing it" in regards to anything other than discussions about detailing, paint polishing, technique, etc. I just wonder if this thread would have spread like wildfire, were it not for the drama.



Anyway... it`s good to see some involvement, but it would be great if it were mostly about machines, or technique, or helping a guy out of a jam, or something related to the "job".

Seems to rile people up.............................: :boxing: I am soft and cuddly.......................

[C. Charles Hahn]

Hey Charles, put the same foam pad Garry used and see what happens. Let us know please

I`ll shoot another clip tomorrow with an orange B&S pad/HD Speed and we`ll see what happens.



All I can say up front is that regardless of how the machine reacts under the extreme circumstances in which we`re performing these tests, my experience with the G110v2 is that I have never been able to stall the rotation in any of the normal operating environments (using proper technique) I`ve used the machine in. Only when I put the pad extremely off-axis (which is improper technique) does it stall out.



Due to the nature of how a DA polisher works, I`d imagine any machine (HD Polisher included) would exhibit the same behavior with improper technique.



So, for my technique and buffing style, I like the cruise control functionality and feel that it does make a difference over other machines I`ve used. As always, YMMV.

[fmodena]

I am not an electrical or mechanical engineer, so I`m counting on experience gained using the machine (and some brain power). I`d say that at speed 6, there is likely to be little to no effect if the machine was being placed under the type of load Garry was putting on it. Seems reasonable to me that in order for Cruise Control Circuitry to properly function:



A) There has to be a reservoir of energy available to the motor, or



The motor`s RPM must be limited, so that there will be additional RPM available, should there be a need to boost RPM to increase centripetal force (thus restoring backing plate rotation).



Really, the G110v2`s cruise control would have to work similarly to a cruise control installed on a typical car. Imagine you were driving along at maximum speed (not limited by an intelligent electronic governor), and encountered an uprising hill. If there was no reserve power or additional RPM available from the engine, there would be no way to maintain the previous maximum speed. The motor would have to have some sort or reserve available (an intelligent electronic governor could limit engine RPM, and lift the limit if there was a need to resotre a predetermined "maximum" speed, under reasonable load conditions).



Back to the machine.



Storage capacitors could supply some energy, but they would drain rather quickly, and would have to be re-energized in order to supply another burst of current. From what I know about capacitance, there`s not much room (if any) inside the machine to mount capacitors that would make any sort of long-term difference.



Regardless, the Cruise Control Circuitry must be comparing motor RPM to load (aka electrical impedance) in order to know when more load was placed upon the machine. It would then have to allow more electrical current to flow to or through the motor. There is no real way to guarantee restoration of backing plate rotation, because backing plate rotation is not mechanically driven (it is created by rotational or centripetal force). Instead, the circuitry must be trying to restore motor speed, which will then create enough momentum to spin the backing plate.



Again though, depending upon the force placed upon the machine, and depending upon the type of pad and compound being used in any particular situation (grippy, abrasive, slippery, tall, short, etc.), there is a limit to the abilities of any machine. In regards to the G110v2... the power of its motor, combined with its gearing ratio (used to create up the final drive ratio of the rotating counterweight & spindle assembly) is apparently not capable of overcoming the forces that Garry was placing upon it.



Obviously (I hope), nobody polishes paint in this manner, and more often than not, you`ll get much better results using slower rather than faster speeds. This is especially true when the task at hand is final polishing. In fact, I think guys are having more trouble finessing paint rather than cutting defects away. Drop those speeds, keep those pads clean!



In the end... we all know that Garry was simply trying to show how strong he was anyway. I`m waiting to see his rotary review next. I can see the opening scene now: Close-up shot of a dented-in wall. The dent resembles the backside of a man. Pan out to a bloodied and bruised Garry Dean, eye taped shut, cast on his right arm. "Hi, I`m Gary Dean, and I just went for a ride. This new-fangled rotary just tossed me into that wall over there with the force of a freakin` freight train..!"

Thanks Kevin. Common sense prevails. I found an old Youtube video of Jason Rose clearly demonstrating the "cruise control" `in action here> 2010 G220v2 With Cruise Control in Action - YouTube