Festool conundrum

[Widget]

HI EVERYBODY ! ! !

Brand new member today ! Um - how to make this concise - due to market limitations because of location, (Tasmania - the postage stamp of the world !) I have very little choice of decent polishers. So am looking to buy a Festool, but which one? Have forgotten all the optimal rpm ranges for paint correction/ buffing - all my research has become a bit of a blur. Trying to choose between: RO ETS 150 (571795) , SHINEX RAP 150 (570762 - I think) , and the ROTEX RO 150 (571805) . I`m hoping I got the model numbers correct. I`m wanting something that is a great all rounder, from scratch removal to finishing buff, something that has forced rotation, as I`m an absolute NOOB when it comes to machine polishing ! Previously everything has been done by hand. Now I`m getting older - I`m so over that!! You`re probably thinking, " why does a beginner want to dish out so much cash for their first machine?" Well - I really only want to do this once. I don`t have heaps of space, (or cash), I really want to buy one, but that`s the thing - ONE - A GOOD ONE. I don`t want to find in a years time, that I wasted my money, hate my machine, and spend my time researching another one. Any ideas anyone?

[C. Charles Hahn]

I`d pick up the RAP 150 rotary, and then buy a Dynabrade DA adapter head for it when you can afford it. That way you will have both a DA and a rotary using one "machine" and only the adapter taking up additional space.

[Widget]

Hi Charlie,

Got any argument `why` the RAP? Sorry to push for details, but I`d like to understand why you`de choose this one over the others. The way my ignorant mind sees it, the RO ETS and the ROTEX RO are DA`s already, why would this one, (with the DA adapter head) be better. - I`m not trying to be argumentative, I`m just using your knowledge to refine my choices.



Hang on - gotta fix my last comment: I now see that the RO ETS is just an eccentric not an RO, but the ROTEX seems to have both actions, both rotary and eccentric.

[C. Charles Hahn]

My logic regarding the three machines would be this:



ETS 150/3 - Orbital stroke length of 1/8", 310-watt motor. The short stroke and low power mean this tool most likely isn`t going to be very good at providing correction, and from the looks of it is best suited to sanding, not polishing.



Rotex RO 150 - Dual mode, both forced rotation and free-floating DA with 3/16" stroke, 720-watt motor. While having a forced rotation mode does mean it is capable of more aggressive fast cutting, it`s still not quite the same as having a true rotary polisher at your disposal.



RAP 150 rotary - Very solid true rotary polisher, gives you the ability to not only cut aggressively, but also to jewel finishes as you grow into it and start playing with it more (not to mention being able to put spindle extensions on it, use small spot buffing pads, etc.). By adding the Dynabrade DA head to it you gain a 3/4" stroke free-floating DA (which does have a forced rotation mode that you`ll probably never use -- I never do) which is not only capable of extremely quick correction in its own right, but also is capable of finishing down very well.



That said, had you not stated you only want to do this once and not have to buy another machine in the future/have limited storage I probably would have told you to go for the Rotex RO 150 now and then pick up the RAP 150 later on. In terms of what I find myself using most often (and what I would want if I were limited to only one polisher), a true rotary that can be adapted into a DA gives more versatility than a DA that can switch between forced rotation and free-floating modes. For what it`s worth I own a Flex 3401 (forced rotation DA) and I haven`t touched it in probably 2+ years now, reaching instead for my DeWalt rotary/Dynabrade DA or my G110v2 for 99% of the polishing I do.



Ultimately the decision comes down to personal preference. I liked the idea of forced rotation in the beginning and relied on it a lot for a few years, but especially since the Microfiber and Surbuf pads came on strong I don`t care for it like I used to. It`s not necessary to get good correction and the non-forced tools are easier to control and work with IMHO.

[Widget]

Wow thanks,

That`s just the sort of thing I needed! I really want to be able to get an understanding of practicality of use. Thanks for the indepth reasoning. I too looked at the Flex, but it`s unavailable down here, and after reading peoples trouble with online warranties, decided against it. Living on an island means that I have to pay postage if anything goes wrong, not to mention the weeks/months waiting to get the machine back. The concept of a rotary scared me, as I`m only a freshman when it comes to machine detailing, so many sites say that a novice can do so much damage with one. But the Dynabrade Head sounds excellent, with the greater eccentric motion - that`s better than anything else I`ve found - now I just gotta source one.



Thanks for your help - appreciated !





You like your Meguires? That was also an option - a little harder to get. Why do you prefer it ?

[imported_Automania]

Wow thanks,

That`s just the sort of thing I needed! I really want to be able to get an understanding of practicality of use. Thanks for the indepth reasoning. I too looked at the Flex, but it`s unavailable down here, and after reading peoples trouble with online warranties, decided against it. Living on an island means that I have to pay postage if anything goes wrong, not to mention the weeks/months waiting to get the machine back. The concept of a rotary scared me, as I`m only a freshman when it comes to machine detailing, so many sites say that a novice can do so much damage with one. But the Dynabrade Head sounds excellent, with the greater eccentric motion - that`s better than anything else I`ve found - now I just gotta source one.



Thanks for your help - appreciated !





You like your Meguires? That was also an option - a little harder to get. Why do you prefer it ?

We have several FEQ 150`s and absolutely love them. there are two problems you should be aware of (l1) change the backing plate that comes with the machine to another not sure what the number is but it secures the pad and near impossible to take off. The second is you can hard wire the electrical cord... We were replacing cords almost every 2 months as were were burning the pins and going bad frequently (bad design) or just keep several cords in stock as we used to do. expensive though.

[Thomas Dekany]

Widget - You see? Great bunch of people hang out here.

[C. Charles Hahn]

That`s just the sort of thing I needed! I really want to be able to get an understanding of practicality of use. Thanks for the indepth reasoning. I too looked at the Flex, but it`s unavailable down here, and after reading peoples trouble with online warranties, decided against it. Living on an island means that I have to pay postage if anything goes wrong, not to mention the weeks/months waiting to get the machine back. The concept of a rotary scared me, as I`m only a freshman when it comes to machine detailing, so many sites say that a novice can do so much damage with one. But the Dynabrade Head sounds excellent, with the greater eccentric motion - that`s better than anything else I`ve found - now I just gotta source one.

There is absolutely a learning curve with a rotary polisher, and they definitely deserve/command some respect. As long as you`re paying attention to what you`re doing and working smart (staying away from and/or masking off panel edges and sharp body lines, keeping the speed down while learning, etc.) though, you shouldn`t cause any damage. Adding the Dynabrade (P/N 61385 in your case since the Festool has an M14 spindle) just adds that much more versatility and a bit of a safety cushion.

You like your Meguires? That was also an option - a little harder to get. Why do you prefer it ?

I do like it; mainly for the cruise control circuit which I find makes a noticeable difference with keeping the pad rotating (when compared to other traditional DAs like the PCXP).

[Widget]

Hey, Automania,

Interesting what you said about the backing plate - Seng12 and ZoranC had the same issue with theirs - ZoranC chased it up and found it had something to do with keeping an even pressure on the machine. You have to be careful of edges and corners, or - `SCHWANG` ! The ROTEX was definitely in my top five choices.



Because I`m only a `Backyard Buff`, I don`t think my machine will be getting constant heavy use, but I`ll take in mind what you said about the cord. You`de think a machine that price would have all the design issues sorted. The Rotex is the easiest for me to get, but also one of the most expensive.



Still pondering - but appreciating all the responses - down here, the detailers are a secretive bunch, and aren`t keen to give advice on what they do for a living - I get that. But you Guys are great ! Having such a mine of information at my fingertips is awesome, ( even if peoples opinions differ - but there ain`t nuttin` wrong with a healthy debate)

[Widget]

Hi Thomas,

You were right! Lovin` the info I`m getting. Have a niggly feeling that this site is going to turn my `interest` into an `obsession` - I may rue the day I took your friendly advice.(well - my `other half ` may) T.V. for me, has now faded into the background - the kids love it ! I now cruise this site trying to suck up as much info as possible - brain is turning to spaghetti a bit, but I`m sure it`ll settle into some sort of cohesive comprehension after a while. Well, I hope it does !

[Thomas Dekany]

Hey, Automania,

Interesting what you said about the backing plate - Seng12 and ZoranC had the same issue with theirs - ZoranC chased it up and found it had something to do with keeping an even pressure on the machine. You have to be careful of edges and corners, or - `SCHWANG` ! The ROTEX was definitely in my top five choices.



Because I`m only a `Backyard Buff`, I don`t think my machine will be getting constant heavy use, but I`ll take in mind what you said about the cord. You`de think a machine that price would have all the design issues sorted. The Rotex is the easiest for me to get, but also one of the most expensive.



Still pondering - but appreciating all the responses - down here, the detailers are a secretive bunch, and aren`t keen to give advice on what they do for a living - I get that. But you Guys are great ! Having such a mine of information at my fingertips is awesome, ( even if peoples opinions differ - but there ain`t nuttin` wrong with a healthy debate)

The guys from down under, who post here are one of the most helpful bunch. That tells you the type of detailers who frequent forums = the good guys. They will chime in I am sure as soon as they see your thread

[Thomas Dekany]

LOL! Welcome to the club!!!

Hi Thomas,

You were right! Lovin` the info I`m getting. Have a niggly feeling that this site is going to turn my `interest` into an `obsession` - I may rue the day I took your friendly advice.(well - my `other half ` may) T.V. for me, has now faded into the background - the kids love it ! I now cruise this site trying to suck up as much info as possible - brain is turning to spaghetti a bit, but I`m sure it`ll settle into some sort of cohesive comprehension after a while. Well, I hope it does !

[Widget]

There is absolutely a learning curve with a rotary polisher, and they definitely deserve/command some respect. As long as you`re paying attention to what you`re doing and working smart (staying away from and/or masking off panel edges and sharp body lines, keeping the speed down while learning, etc.) though, you shouldn`t cause any damage. Adding the Dynabrade (P/N 61385 in your case since the Festool has an M14 spindle) just adds that much more versatility and a bit of a safety cushion.







I do like it; mainly for the cruise control circuit which I find makes a noticeable difference with keeping the pad rotating (when compared to other traditional DAs like the PCXP).

Ah - read that somewhere B4. The Megs was the second one I set my heart on, (after the Porter Cable, [couldn`t get that one here, plus voltage difference]), but then found they don`t import it any more. Can get one from Britain, but I have to check the voltage I get from the mains. Aus is usually 230-240v, but, (after a little more research encouraged by your comment), apparently that has recently changed, and we`re now roughly 220v, which puts us pretty close in line with Britain`s 210v. So it puts the Megs in the running again - even though I`d have to get it from so far away. You`ve given me a little more food for thought. The other plus with the G220(G110) is it`s weight - the idea of a light weight machine is very alluring. It`s what ruled out the Makita for me - actually found one down here, went over with a smile on my face, picked it up, my smile faded, I just couldn`t imagine working with that weight for hours at a time - call me a wuss, but the lighter the better, you know - ergonomics an` all that - plus I`m not really built like Schwartzeneger. Think I`ll take another foray into researching the Megs - might be worth it, Thanks Charlie !

[SVR]

Hi Widget, love tasmania btw



Well I have some advice for you regarding the machines you mentioned



The Festool Shinex - good ergonomic lightweight machine but not meant for using anything bigger than six inch backing plate with 6.5 inch pads. I used mine with 8 inch pads for a while and destroyed brushes pretty quick. now used for 2 to 5 inch pad work only

CC Hahn made a good point about using the dynabrade head. I have one, about to order the DA-RO switchable one but I do not think that the shinex would be able to cope with running either head at speed 5 or 6 for long. I use my older makita rotary with it and as people know, they take a beating

The newer makita I use in its traditional form



other problem with it, severly expensive in Australia.



Second - the Rotex 150. we have one at my part time job location and its 5mm throw and forced rotation mode is killer for defect removal, however its other mode is a let down. pads wont spin enough with it on most speeds. way overpriced is what puts me off buying my own. nearly 900 bucks. insane



the ETS 150 - my friend has one and it does have good correction ability and superb for finishing. but at the price of 575, not that nice on the wallet either



The other choice you have in Australia is the concours 900 polisher. 880 watt, 8mm orbit throw, variable backing plates fit on it, good durability and only 230 to 299 depending on where you buy it



hope this helps you mate

[Widget]

Hi SVR

Thanx for the welcome mate. Your right about the prices, but I`ve been researching this now for over a year, and my "buffer fund" has increased along with my confusion and frustration.



Looked up the Concours - Hmmm Interesting - greater orbit than the flex, roughly 400g-ish. heavier, but W-A-Y cheaper! Looked at the Dynabrade head that Charlie mentioned, only found one that would ship to Aus - also looked pretty big in diameter. From what I`ve read, I think I`d like to stick to 150mm/6" and no bigger. I have limited room to work around my car, plus I don`t really want to go into getting different size pads for each head, but 3/4 of orbit sounded a treat - hard to ignore. I appreciate the input though. In looking up the concours, (although sold out-`BOO`) did find a great deal going at Waxit that almost sounds worth the try -Polisher/pads and product all in one deal, but have to wait till they come in. You might have just put me onto some thing that I can`t resist. I`m so keen to start. Esp since last weekend I took the kids to the park, and when we came back to the car -MY GOD ! ! ! There were 37 post-its from the seagulls - and that was just on the bonnet and roof! I swear they went `Hey Bill, give you my half a chip if you hit that", it looked like target practice - I nearly cried. Not to mention that after the shame of driving home, (black car covered in white birdy poop - looking like a reverse dalmation) ,when i cleaned it off -I swear those birds had been eating 80 grit sandpaper. I`m so desperate to get a polisher, my car`s paint has never looked in such bad shape.

Dissapointed to hear about the Rotex`s lack of guts on the ecc. motion. It was top of my list B4 I got on this site. More thinking it over methinks.



Thanks for the comment on Tassie. Beautiful place, but you can`t buy squat down here. I swear, Darwin is SO metropolitan compared to down here!