I need another alternative to m205

**EBPcivicsi** · 03-15-2011, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

I will admit I don`t keep the pad quite as clean as with M105, but I don`t think that`s the problem. I actually think I have my technique down OK with this product, but under the SunGun I often see those oily pseudo-holograms (sometimes, rarely, see `em in the sun too).

Huh...UPP with no issues?!? I wouldn`t have tried that one after M205.

And it`s funny that you say "Collinite products are out" as I *have* used them after M205 with no problems!

Heh heh, we`re sure having different experiences with this one!

We don`t have any issues with UPP..none at all. I thought the same thing--no way it will work!

With the collinite products it`s almost as if they just can`t "clean" the remaining 205 oils off before bonding--talk about pseudo-holograms! I have had to repolish three cars after using the M205/collinite LSP`s. FWIW, I was using 476s and then tried the insualtor, same result.

Really makes me wonder what`s going on.....

**Accumulator** · 03-15-2011, 11:41 AM

solekeeper- There was apparently a bad batch of M205. I thought I was the only guy who had some of it, but it sounds like others got some too. If you get any M205 that`s really thin (like milk) instead of being like a "normal Meguiar`s polish" such as M80, then send it back; that`s the bad stuff. SOOOO oily and even less cut than M205 usually has (but no better finishing either). Just bad stuff, hey, it happens.

ebpcivicsi- Eh, I think that was *my* mistake about which maroon pad we were discussing

But I am a little surprised that I like the 7006 (and it`s new 7" cousin) so much, what with them being so "old tech" and all. I do want to try that new MF cutting pad though, see how the newest-tech works too.

That`s interesting about when M205`s oils do/don`t cause issues for you :think: Eh, I`m doing so few vehicles that I can`t really speak with authority the way you can...a few tries with something isn`t much experience to base opinions on (hey, that ties in with your signature line!).

I`ve had issues with underlying stuff causing issues with UPP, so much so that I just *never* woulda thought I could use it over M205 without some heavy-duty cleaning! Eh, I`m only using UPP on the S8 and I`m not gonna finish that with M205 anyhow

I have kinda a love/hate relationship with M205...I use it but I keep thinking that between sometimes benefiting from a follow up with Menzerna, and other times just being such a PIA that I wish I`d used 1Z HG, well.... I sorta surprise myself by using M205 as much as I do.

**Envious Eric** · 03-15-2011, 06:21 PM

im with Rick on this one...203 menzerna powerfinish! cuts better than 205 and finishes better as well!

my new go to routine is surfbuf and 105, then 203 hydrotec tang or a white pad, then black pad with 85rd for some final polishing.

205 leaves too much marring of its own to deal with for me....

**solekeeper** · 03-15-2011, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by toyotaguy

im with Rick on this one...203 menzerna powerfinish! cuts better than 205 and finishes better as well!

my new go to routine is surfbuf and 105, then 203 hydrotec tang or a white pad, then black pad with 85rd for some final polishing.

205 leaves too much marring of its own to deal with for me....

Ok, two votes for Power Finish. Now what pads to use that with?

**imported_RZJZA80** · 03-15-2011, 08:42 PM

I personally don`t mind the oils or whatever in 205, but I`d have to rate the cut at a 1 or 2 because to me it shines very very well, but either doesn`t cut at all or leaves it`s own swirls, and that`s with 4" LC white or black and Griot`s 6" or PC or makita 9227

**wfedwar** · 03-15-2011, 09:10 PM

FWIW, I`ve found that M205 finishes much, much better for me via rotary than via orbital/flex.

**Envious Eric** · 03-15-2011, 09:57 PM

powerfinish with the following pads are what I use

orange

hydrotec tangerine

green

white

all depends on the results from the compounding step and type of paint, and if its just a one step and the type of paint (usually hydro or white pad though)

**solekeeper** · 03-15-2011, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by toyotaguy

powerfinish with the following pads are what I use

orange

hydrotec tangerine

green

white

all depends on the results from the compounding step and type of paint, and if its just a one step and the type of paint (usually hydro or white pad though)

Well I`ll be going from m105-maroon wool, does this Power finish have more cut than the m205?

If the cut is more significant, I`ll do m105-wool, menzerna, then throw in 205 for the dark colored cars.

**porta** · 03-16-2011, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by solekeeper

Ok, two votes for Power Finish. Now what pads to use that with?

I can second on Menzerna PO203S. I would use it with a green or white Buff and shine pads/Ãœber pads.

**Envious Eric** · 03-16-2011, 02:12 AM

NO, kick 205 out of the equation....it blows in comparison to menzerna 203 IMO. get a bottle and see for yourself...

105 and maroon wool is pretty aggressive...you should go from that to 105 on orange/white, then 203 on white, then finishing polish...if you were to do things properly...

205 is a terribly marketed product IMO, it leaves so much micro marring from the "non-diminishing" abrasives that no matter what paint you are working one, it will never have the gloss and clarity to match its potential. Its one of the worst "ultra finishing" products I have used on the pc. its not even close to a finishing step IMO. Menzerna 85rd finishes MUCH better, so does Menzerna 203 for that matter!

203 cuts better, finishes better and is MUCH more glossy all around!!!! remove the polishing oils and you can go straight to waxing/sealing on some paints...(any black cars always get hit with 85rd from me.)

**Accumulator** · 03-16-2011, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by toyotaguy

NO, kick 205 out of the equation....205 is a terribly marketed product IMO, it leaves so much micro marring from the "non-diminishing" abrasives that no matter what paint you are working one, it will never have the gloss and clarity to match its potential. Its one of the worst "ultra finishing" products I have used on the pc. its not even close to a finishing step IMO...

Huh, I`m one of the people who`s questioned M205`s finishing pretty much from the start, but I wouldn`t go quite *that* far :think: On hard clear it finishes out pretty well for me...not as well as Menzerna, but awfully close to 1Z HG (and by that I mean I probably couldn`t tell `em apart in a blind test). I absolutely *cannot* spot any micromarring from M205 on hard clear, and believe me, I`ver *REALLY* tried (SunGun, etc.). But I guess there are a scad of variables in play here...I mean, a lot of people think I`m nuts when I see micromarring from M105!

EDIT: Actually, M205 did leave micromarring (and not all that "micro" either!) on the "machined finish" wheels on my Yukon XLD.

**RaskyR1** · 03-16-2011, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by toyotaguy

NO, kick 205 out of the equation....it blows in comparison to menzerna 203 IMO. get a bottle and see for yourself...

105 and maroon wool is pretty aggressive...you should go from that to 105 on orange/white, then 203 on white, then finishing polish...if you were to do things properly...

205 is a terribly marketed product IMO, it leaves so much micro marring from the "non-diminishing" abrasives that no matter what paint you are working one, it will never have the gloss and clarity to match its potential. Its one of the worst "ultra finishing" products I have used on the pc. its not even close to a finishing step IMO. Menzerna 85rd finishes MUCH better, so does Menzerna 203 for that matter!

203 cuts better, finishes better and is MUCH more glossy all around!!!! remove the polishing oils and you can go straight to waxing/sealing on some paints...(any black cars always get hit with 85rd from me.)

Respectfully, I have to disagree on the M205 portion of this post Eric. While I do agree that M205 can leave micro marring via DA on soft softer paints, it works very well on hard clear when using the DA and I absolutely love it on the rotary when using it to follow up after M105. It works especially well on fresh paints too. Less dust, nice short work time, and easy wipe off.

I love 203 as well, but M205 is no slouch IMO, you just have to dial it in. One thing I like about Menzerna is that they seem to work well on all paint types, where Meguiar`s polishes can have issues with some paints....I just hate the long work times required for Menzerna

Dave KG did a great review on M205 here...

Meguiars #205 - The Ultimate Finishing Polish? - Detailing World

solekeeper. Don`t take this the wrong way bro as I`m only trying to help, but you`ve been going round and round between products/pads for a while now, creating several threads asking for wet sanding/finishing advice, which is totally fine....but the honest answer is that your trying to do too much, too fast, with too few polishing steps. Your current products are not the problem. If you cut with M105/wool on the rotary there should be at least two more refining steps to follow, regardless of color. Working on a rotary, there is no magic product combo (at least non I`ve seen) that will remove 2000 grit scratches effectively and still finish out perfect in only 2 correction steps. While it varies between paint types, I`ve been able to do it in 3 steps many times, but I still feel it`s best done with 4.

Rasky

**EBPcivicsi** · 03-16-2011, 12:30 PM

I just think there are so many variables when it comes to polish/technique that it is hard to *really* compare things.

I can make M205 finish on just about *any* paint, with the exception of a few *very* temperamental paints.

I don`t use it with a pc, almost always FLEX. I can also make it finish with a rotary, but can require another step on some paints for optimal gloss(PO85rd, or 3M UF).

For those of you having trouble with hazing on the FLEX with M205, try a stiffer pad--new hydrotech maroon, AB white, even orange on some paints. IME, the "vortex" created when using an orbital/soft pads can really cause a lot of the "ticking" seen when using finishing polishes with orbitals. Again, most of my experience with M205 is with the FLEX/rotary.

Also, I can`t really make Menzerna powerfinish finish even reasonably close to M205....see what I mean?

Accumulator, I can`t make the MF buffing system work on soft paints....still trying though.

Also, the more I think about the UPP thing I can`t help but wonder (again) if we are comparing apples to apples. I had V2, then V3 (bubble gum) and neither would work under *anything* outside of KAIO or UPPC. The newer version with the "polycharger" sticker is much less temperamental. What a mess, huh?

**imported_Ivan Rajic** · 03-16-2011, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by RaskyR1

Respectfully, I have to disagree on the M205 portion of this post Eric. While I do agree that M205 can leave micro marring via DA on soft softer paints, it works very well on hard clear when using the DA and I absolutely love it on the rotary when using it to follow up after M105. It works especially well on fresh paints too. Less dust, nice short work time, and easy wipe off.

I love 203 as well, but M205 is no slouch IMO, you just have to dial it in. One thing I like about Menzerna is that they seem to work well on all paint types, where Meguiar`s polishes can have issues with some paints....I just hate the long work times required for Menzerna

Rasky

FUnny how I feel completely opposite. I have issues with Menzerna not only on different paints but it`s extremely dependent on the right temperature, whereas M205 works whether it`s 35 or 85.

Originally Posted by ebpcivicsi

I just think there are so many variables when it comes to polish/technique that it is hard to *really* compare things.

I can make M205 finish on just about *any* paint, with the exception of a few *very* temperamental paints.

I don`t use it with a pc, almost always FLEX. I can also make it finish with a rotary, but can require another step on some paints for optimal gloss(PO85rd, or 3M UF).

For those of you having trouble with hazing on the FLEX with M205, try a stiffer pad--new hydrotech maroon, AB white, even orange on some paints. IME, the "vortex" created when using an orbital/soft pads can really cause a lot of the "ticking" seen when using finishing polishes with orbitals. Again, most of my experience with M205 is with the FLEX/rotary.

I think this just about nails it. We`re all in different cities, using different tools, pads, pressures, etc. etc. I too use M205 a lot and mostly via Flex, sometimes with Rotary and usually via PC 3-4" pads for tight areas. I too have no issues at all with M205 and its oils. If I use too much and wipe off prematurely, I`ll need to do some extra wiping but that`s true with any polish. I have yet to wipe it off and see residue holograms a bit later. At the same time, while I do like 203s how it cuts and finishes down, it`s a b*tch to work with compared to M205 and it takes a while to wipe off all the oils even after working it in for a while.

For the OP, I agree with the few saying that you simply need a middle step. On some harder clear coats, you might get away with M105/wool and SIP/white (MAYBE orange) and the finish will still be pretty good, but M105/wool and M205/anything is a big jump. M205 can definitely correct a good amount and I use it non-stop for 1-step polishing details (just used it on a 2009 MB E550 and it worked great!) but most of the time I don`t see it removing swirls instilled by M105/wool.

**Accumulator** · 03-16-2011, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by ebpcivicsi

.. the more I think about the UPP thing I can`t help but wonder (again) if we are comparing apples to apples. I had V2, then V3 (bubble gum) and neither would work under *anything* outside of KAIO or UPPC. The newer version with the "polycharger" sticker is much less temperamental. What a mess, huh?

Eh, I bet we`ll never get to the bottom of this one :grinno: I too am using V2 and V3 :nixweiss I`m using it over/after 1Z Pro MP. IF I ever use up all my current UPP (and that`s a mighty big "if" since I only use it on the seldom-driven S8), I might see how the newer polycharged version compares, though I`m getting more and more sold on FK1000P these days.