Cut and Buff fresh paint? 3M system------ Pro`s only respond please!

**Doright** · 08-29-2010, 09:24 AM

Hi all

PLEASE Only Pro`s respond to this thread:bat

I am having a heck of a time with the 3M system with Swirls and Hologram`s.

On all of my work is on Fresh Paint/Clear Cut first with 1500 grit wet followed by 2000,2500, and 3000 most all work.

Sometimes I only do the 1500 and start in on compounding with my Dewalt and 3M Wool pad before moving on to 3M white foam pad then the 3M black pad and final Blue pad with Swirl remover.

In all instances of all my work as soon as its rolled out side in the sun Swirls or Holograms are Very evident.

I get a really nice shine with the 1500 grit followed by Compound and wool and have no problems getting all the sand scratch out but all my attempts to remove swirls are met in frustration.

I have read the sticky Machining thread at the top but as I read through it ran across Pro`s Even contradicting there own words as products change so did there technique so I was also set back by the amount of amateurs chiming in while they may have a buffer and a few cars under there belt I would appreciate that only Pro`s chime in on this thread and get there advise this will help more amateurs in the future and beginners in the future I think.

I also know by requesting this It will be a big turn off for a few but honestly I am only concerned with what the Pro`s have to say Than too ready what works for the guy who has only buffed a few cars!

and only ever tried one system. Personally I have tried many diffrent systems and still fight swirls.

So I know my Hallow grams and swirls are being put into my paint with my technique How and what do you think I am doing wrong? In all stages of my work I am following 3M`s suggested speeds and have watched there video but I am still having problems.

Thanks for any and ALL help

Dennis

**bridgersmith** · 08-29-2010, 09:56 AM

I had a lot of problems with using a rotary also following directions to the T with all kinds of swirl removers. Finally I realized that I can do a lot with a rotary until it comes time for finishing. My solution was to switch to a D.A. and all the swirls went away! Now if there are heavy scratches I use the rotary and then finish out with my D.A. The product is what it is and most likely will be responding to your technique. Hope this helps, good luck!

**Dan** · 08-29-2010, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Doright

I would appreciate that only Pro`s chime in on this thread and get there advise this will help more amateurs in the future and beginners in the future I think.

I also know by requesting this It will be a big turn off for a few but honestly I am only concerned with what the Pro`s have to say Than too ready what works for the guy who has only buffed a few cars!

and only ever tried one system. Personally I have tried many diffrent systems and still fight swirls.

So I know my Hallow grams and swirls are being put into my paint with my technique How and what do you think I am doing wrong? In all stages of my work I am following 3M`s suggested speeds and have watched there video but I am still having problems.

Thanks for any and ALL help

Dennis

Turn off? You got that right. What defines a pro? There are lots of non-pros that are more meticulous about correction than 99% of pros. And *** is a Hallow gram? Are you already making plans for sending cards on Halloween?

**Final Touch** · 08-30-2010, 06:31 AM

I don`t bother trying to finish with my Rotary any more either the DA is just so much simpler and hassle free.

**Doright** · 09-01-2010, 01:10 PM

Hi guys

I was hopping to here how to make a variable speed rotary do the job but if what it takes is a DA I`m OK with that too......

Are you useing a DA from start to finish after sanding with 1500 grit?

What are you starting with Wool and then moving on into Foams or is foam used from 1500 sanding all the way through final polish?

**automedix** · 09-01-2010, 01:58 PM

It sounds to me as you need help with your technique. I actually use 3M products as well. I use the Waffle yellow pad and the compound, I use the blue pad for the polish or swirl remover. Most of my buffing is on spot repairs, but I find that once I am done wet sanding that I use my Dewalt with the Waffle yellow pad and compound at about 2400 RPM using my trigger as a variable speed switch. The swirl remover gets applied using the Dewalt & the blue pad, but I stop short, and buff the rest of the way using a clean MF towel. NO SWIRLS! This techinque has worked for me for years.

Don`t be afraid of speed - As long as you have even pressure, compound, a steady hand, and do not hover in the same place too long, you could get away with 3000RPM`s

Practice, practice, practice......

**crc1** · 09-01-2010, 02:29 PM

There`s no getting away from it! It`s a fact that if you use a wool pad with cutting compound on a rotary it will leave swirls. PERIOD! Swirls are actually fine scratches left from the combination of the spinning wool pad and the abrasives in the compound. This will achieve a much faster cut than is possible with a DA, but the price you pay is the swirls and halograms left behind. Worse yet, depending on the compound used, the residue from it will temporarily fill the swirls hiding them in some instances for several days not to mention the additional processes you may have done thinking all was fine with the cutting. If a rotary is part of your process be aware that there will be swirls whether you can see them or not. The only solution I know of is to do an IPA wipe down right after you buff so you can see for sure what you have to deal with. Use a DA, or better yet one with forced rotation and a foam pad using polish with sufficient cut to remove the swirls. IPA again and repeat the process if necessary until you are sure no swirls remain. Experiment on a small panel or section of panel until you find the right combination.

**Doright** · 09-07-2010, 10:58 PM

What has happend to the other posts on this thread??????

Ther were a few other good posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That are now gone!

**Envious Eric** · 09-10-2010, 10:51 PM

the way I work -

if going for perfect finish I will bring out the rotary and cut all the heavy stuff out with pfw and 105 or menzerna powergloss.

then Ill bring out the pcxp and orange/105 and go around the car to remove the wool marks and holograms

then its either SIP and white or 203 and white

then 85rd on black

**Alexshimshimhae** · 09-10-2010, 11:37 PM

i guess me and yakky are the only ones a bit turned off by his attitude

**craigdt** · 09-11-2010, 02:15 PM

Dont forget me. I hate it when people only want the opinion of pros.

A lot of good info here not submitted by pros.

**Doright** · 09-14-2010, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by automedix

It sounds to me as you need help with your technique. I actually use 3M products as well. I use the Waffle yellow pad and the compound, I use the blue pad for the polish or swirl remover. Most of my buffing is on spot repairs, but I find that once I am done wet sanding that I use my Dewalt with the Waffle yellow pad and compound at about 2400 RPM using my trigger as a variable speed switch. The swirl remover gets applied using the Dewalt & the blue pad, but I stop short, and buff the rest of the way using a clean MF towel. NO SWIRLS! This techinque has worked for me for years.

Don`t be afraid of speed - As long as you have even pressure, compound, a steady hand, and do not hover in the same place too long, you could get away with 3000RPM`s

Practice, practice, practice......

Explain stopping short with the swirl remover please???

I was reading what 3M says on the bottle of compound but I guess maybe I am working the compound to fast and too long seams to be drying out on me before I get all the swirls out so I am continuing with compounding before wiping..... stuff dries and I end up buffing it off before adding more