anyone else have a little trouble with the 105 205 combo?

**Turbocress** · 10-26-2009, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

While I did use a lot of H-T Extreme Cut leveler before M105 came out, and I do still like their Heavy Cut leveler/"357" for some things, the PrepWash is their only gotta-have product IMO.

Their stuff is OK, but IMO it`s kinda like "circa 1980s OK".

thats odd, considering that one of their motto`s is that they contantly change their formulas to keep them up to date and competative.... lol

although i do actually like their grape dressing for tires, i just dont like the heavy petroleum content thats in it... and the white luster which is the same thing except non flammable is ok but doesnt last nearly as long...

ever tried their extreme suds and sparkling suds washes that supposedly generate a ton of foam??? id be interested to see how they work with a foam gun.

**SuperBee364** · 10-26-2009, 01:21 PM

I haven`t tried them myself, but BigJimZ28 has some good things to say about their AIO`s, too.

**Accumulator** · 10-26-2009, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Turbocress

thats odd, considering that one of their motto`s is that they contantly change their formulas to keep them up to date and competative.... lol

Heh heh, [insert cynical comment here].

But OTOH, they *did* reformulate (and rename) the PrepWash, so maybe I oughta cut `em some slack.

although i do actually like their grape dressing for tires, i just dont like the heavy petroleum content thats in it... and the white luster which is the same thing except non flammable is ok but doesnt last nearly as long...

Eh, the grape scent would gag me. Never tried the white luster stuff though.

ever tried their extreme suds and sparkling suds washes that supposedly generate a ton of foam??? id be interested to see how they work with a foam gun.

Nah, lots of foam is antithetical to how I use the foamgun. Other than the price, Griot`s Car Wash is 100% perfect for me, and I do mean *perfect*.

**Turbocress** · 10-26-2009, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Heh heh, [insert cynical comment here].

But OTOH, they *did* reformulate (and rename) the PrepWash, so maybe I oughta cut `em some slack.

Eh, the grape scent would gag me. Never tried the white luster stuff though.

Nah, lots of foam is antithetical to how I use the foamgun. Other than the price, Griot`s Car Wash is 100% perfect for me, and I do mean *perfect*.

yeah i might give a couple of their things a try, but im not experienced enough with other brands to really give an opinion except as a standlone opinion on it.

ok, news for the pads and stuff for the buffing optins ive tried now.

checked the panel after using the prepwash to remove all the wax and sealant. heavily hologrammed with what looked like wide swirls... no scratches, but its like long sweeing holograms were on the panel....

so i went with an orange 5.5 lc pad, with m105. i put a little bit of 105 on the pad and spread it around until the whole top of the pad had a little whiteness from the 105 on it (to prime). then gave a dime size amount of polish on the pad. put it on the panel and worked a 1 foot square space using slow movements until the product was translucent... wiped it from the area, and it looked like it did quite a bit, but still had a LOT of micro marring/scratches that you could tell came from the PC.

do i went back and did it again and worked more product on, after about 6-7 passes i went and wiped it away again and it looked ok... sprayed some prep wash, let it dwell for 45 secs or so, then wiped it away, and i could see a large amount of marring and figured i wouldnt be able to get it any better with the 105. so i switched to 205, primed my white pad, and worked the same area for about 7-8 passes until it was translucent. wiped away and it looked ok.... from farther away you cant see much marring or scratching from a side shot with the brinkmann. but if you sort of aim it down on the panel like the sun i can see A LOT of horizontal marks, some looked like scratch, some looked like what you would get from a bad towel.... these were new MF clothes, but i tried wiping vertically to remove the product and the prep wash and IPA as well. and it still only had the horizontal marks.

what am i doing wrong? i tried a white, green, and black pad for the 205 step, the white seemed like it did ok, the green left some marring, and the black left a better finish than the white, but i still had those horizontal marks that the 105 didnt seem to remove...

am i just simply not working the 105 enough? or am i missing something else? in some areas with large halogen lights, you cant see anything and it looks perfect, not sure what else to do now.

**SuperBee364** · 10-26-2009, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Turbocress

yeah i might give a couple of their things a try, but im not experienced enough with other brands to really give an opinion except as a standlone opinion on it.

ok, news for the pads and stuff for the buffing optins ive tried now.

checked the panel after using the prepwash to remove all the wax and sealant. heavily hologrammed with what looked like wide swirls... no scratches, but its like long sweeing holograms were on the panel....

so i went with an orange 5.5 lc pad, with m105. i put a little bit of 105 on the pad and spread it around until the whole top of the pad had a little whiteness from the 105 on it (to prime). then gave a dime size amount of polish on the pad. put it on the panel and worked a 1 foot square space using slow movements until the product was translucent... wiped it from the area, and it looked like it did quite a bit, but still had a LOT of micro marring/scratches that you could tell came from the PC.

do i went back and did it again and worked more product on, after about 6-7 passes i went and wiped it away again and it looked ok... sprayed some prep wash, let it dwell for 45 secs or so, then wiped it away, and i could see a large amount of marring and figured i wouldnt be able to get it any better with the 105. so i switched to 205, primed my white pad, and worked the same area for about 7-8 passes until it was translucent. wiped away and it looked ok.... from farther away you cant see much marring or scratching from a side shot with the brinkmann. but if you sort of aim it down on the panel like the sun i can see A LOT of horizontal marks, some looked like scratch, some looked like what you would get from a bad towel.... these were new MF clothes, but i tried wiping vertically to remove the product and the prep wash and IPA as well. and it still only had the horizontal marks.

what am i doing wrong? i tried a white, green, and black pad for the 205 step, the white seemed like it did ok, the green left some marring, and the black left a better finish than the white, but i still had those horizontal marks that the 105 didnt seem to remove...

am i just simply not working the 105 enough? or am i missing something else? in some areas with large halogen lights, you cant see anything and it looks perfect, not sure what else to do now.

Try switching from the white pad (which is, I`m assuming, a Lake Country white pad) to a zero bite pad, and re-do the area with 205. That will at least eliminate the pad as the source of the marring.

Any chance you could post some pics?

**Turbocress** · 10-26-2009, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

Try switching from the white pad (which is, I`m assuming, a Lake Country white pad) to a zero bite pad, and re-do the area with 205. That will at least eliminate the pad as the source of the marring.

Any chance you could post some pics?

sure thing i can post some pics.

ive switched from the white lc pad to the gray lc pad (which has zero to any bite, but i havent even seen anyone having to use anything softer than a gray lc pad with 205 to finish out).

gotta get some pictures in a minute here, if i cant get them tonight ill post them tomorrow.

just sort of frustrating to see the marring im seeing when ive done this under the dual halogen lights before and had nothing but great results, but i guess the right lights show you want you arent doing right.

are there any videos on m105 and 205 uses with the proper working area, product use, priming, and wiping/finish techniques? i cant help but thing its just the way im working it in, that i may be working it too much or not enough. ive tried faster strokes and slower strokes on the gray pad with 205... faster strokes gives hologramming, slower stroked still has the scratching.

**Turbocress** · 10-26-2009, 07:53 PM

well. i was hoping for better results when i went back out and tried it one more time. but it just seems like it wasnt going to work at all.. still have hazing.scratching in 1 direction regardless of how much i do an ipa wipe to remove the fillers and silicones etc.

what temperature do these polishes not perform well under? its been about 45-50 maybe lower at night today, just wondering if a lower temperature is going to severely effect the outcome of using 105 and 205... i had used them in a moderate temperature and they didnt seem to have any trouble at all performing.... and now its the complete opposite, whatever i do, they just arent working properly.

here is before starting.

after working 105 into the paint, this is about 8 passes, moderate pressure starting, softer pressure for the last 4 passes

no flash

after wiping away

this is what the pad looked like after wiping residue off and priming for the second pass to try to remove some more hazing

after the second set of passes, it looked like this

some improvement but the hazing is ridiculous

i primed my gray lc pad the same way, and did 8-10 passes on the surface of th epaint, moderate pressure for the first 4 passes, and the last set of passes on it were light pressure (about 8 lbs). almost no improvement if any, some of it looks ok, but it looks like a huge amount of scratches still remain, not like a clean paint surface should look

heres an example of whats left after going through all the steps.

no clue why... even doing verticle wipes to remove compound there are still horizontal hazing.

so would temperature affect the polishes THAT much????? something is messed up and i cant figure it out. i may go wash the pads out really really good and see what i can come up with. any advice is very welcome.

**Turbocress** · 10-26-2009, 11:35 PM

one more update. i went back and tried the kbm method for 105 205 usage. it worked a little better, but still had holos and a fair amount of scratches from using the kbm method itself, then went to a gray pad with 205... primed it lightly, put 3 pea size dots on the pad, spread it around the 1 foot square area, and did 2 passes with kbm style pressure, and then 2 passes moderate pressure, and then 2 passes light pressure..... it got rid of 90% of the scratches and hologramming, but left the surface.... foggy....

i think ill wait til daylight, to clear my head and think of some solutions to this. and maybe get some more suggestions.... btw this is on a 1993 toyota supra. still thinking the cold has something to do with this

**SuperBee364** · 10-27-2009, 08:48 AM

The fog is most likely that "milky white residue" I mentioned in another thread. It`s leftover 205 residue, and can be *very* hard to get off. Straight 91% IPA can do it, but even then it`s not easy. Hi-Temp Prep Wash followed by a quick IPA wipe will make quick work of it.

Using a cleaning glaze will get rid of it, too, then you just have to get the glaze off with IPA. Even a non-cleaning glaze would probably get it off. just follow up with IPA afterwards to get rid of the glaze.

Also, once you think you have gotten rid of all the milky residue, there will be just a touch left that will make you think you have holograms. Keep wiping til they`re gone.

**Turbocress** · 10-27-2009, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

The fog is most likely that "milky white residue" I mentioned in another thread. It`s leftover 205 residue, and can be *very* hard to get off. Straight 91% IPA can do it, but even then it`s not easy. Hi-Temp Prep Wash followed by a quick IPA wipe will make quick work of it.

Using a cleaning glaze will get rid of it, too, then you just have to get the glaze off with IPA. Even a non-cleaning glaze would probably get it off. just follow up with IPA afterwards to get rid of the glaze.

Also, once you think you have gotten rid of all the milky residue, there will be just a touch left that will make you think you have holograms. Keep wiping til they`re gone.

well, hopefully thats what it was, so i can find out what it takes to get the panel clear like the pictures, and remove the foggyness with the prep wash and ipa i picked up. i was using the prep wash and it was pretty clear to see that you need to ipa the prep wash after using it heh. but good stuff nonetheless

**Accumulator** · 10-27-2009, 09:43 AM

turbocress- You might also try a follow up with some Menzerna finishing polish. That seems to cut away the residual M205 stuff while upping the gloss and clarity.

**Turbocress** · 10-27-2009, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

turbocress- You might also try a follow up with some Menzerna finishing polish. That seems to cut away the residual M205 stuff while upping the gloss and clarity.

thanks, i was looking for a decent finishing polish that could follow the 205, or possibly another line of mild/agressive, to fine polish, to finishing for a solid 3 step

**Accumulator** · 10-28-2009, 10:05 AM

Turbocress- The additional third step oughta be pretty mild, maybe even FPII-mild.

**SuperBee364** · 10-28-2009, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Turbocress- The additional third step oughta be pretty mild, maybe even FPII-mild.

On hard clears, UF, PO85RD, or even PO106FF(A)

On medium clears: UF, PO85RD, or FPII

On Soft clears: UF, FPII

All IMO, of course.

106 doesn`t really seem to add much gloss to a 205 finished surface, but the other polishes should not just take out any holos 205 left, but also take the gloss up a notch.

If time is of a concern, go with the UF. It cleans up after 205 *really* fast. Four quick passes (one application) of UF will pretty much clean up after 205 on just about any clear, hard or soft. UF will clean up after 105 most of the time, for that matter.