Hey I`m New and have some questions on different buffers.

**caaznkid** · 06-03-2009, 11:23 PM

Hey everyone,

So, what exactly is a dual action polisher capable of? I always read stuff about dual action polishers being overestimated. Is it only able to remove light swirl marks?

Here`s my situation:

I have an 04 Acura TL third gen in black and there are some....I don`t know...white scratches on the sides of my car. The scratches don`t catch my finger or anything, so I think they`re probably only clearcoat deep, most likely from rocks hitting my car. My question is, is a dual action polisher such as the porter cable 7424 capable of removing these scratches or would one have to have a rotary polisher? Because I can`t remove them by hand, I`ve already tried.

And also, the best value`d dual action polisher I`ve found so far is the Griot`s Garage one. It can orbit from 2500-6800 rpm and the motor is 7 amps as opposed to the porter cable motor that is only 3.7 amps and only goes up to 6000rpm. Does anyone have this newer Griot`s Garage buffer model because I haven`t really been able to find any recent reviews of the Griot`s Garage Model, so some feedback would be nice. Anyway thank you for taking the time to read my questions and concerns everybody (:

**HLxDrummer** · 06-04-2009, 12:09 AM

If the defects are through the clearcoat, you probably won`t be able to fix them with a DA.

I`m not sure exactly what a DA is capable of, so I`ll let others chime in for that.

I have heard one or two people say they like their Griot`s garage DA, but I chose to go with the well liked G110. It is said to have more power (slightly) than the PC, has a lot of pads to chose from and is relatively affordable. They are apparently also coming out with a new PC that has more power.

A lot of the performance of the DA depends on pad and chemical selection as well.

**EricDawg** · 06-04-2009, 12:48 AM

Well I`m just an amateur, but I have been using my Porter Cable DA for a few years on my black Dakota, and a few other cars. It`s main feature is that it`s safe. It removes "rub marks" that look liks scratches but can`t be felt with a fingernail. It removes light swirls marks and water spots with ease with the right pad and compound. Deeper swirls can be frustrating, but I`ve had good luck with a yellow pad and a more abrasvie compound - 3M Rubbing Compound. I have to crank the speed to 6 and apply a lot of pressure to remove deeper swirls. For me it gets my car to a good point that looks great after polishing and it`s safe.

Have you thought about a Flex? That`s next on my list I think, but I`m very happy with the RA. I`ve removed a lot of rub marks, water spots, etc. from a lot of friends cars with ease. It`s a great tool to have around. I DO wish I had something that removed deeper swirls and scratches with ease and safety.

Best of luck to you.

Edit: Orange pads don`t do much for me for swirls. I always try them first, but yellow is the only pad that cuts through the swirls for me. Orange does good work on rub marks and water spots. Heck a white pad works for water spots for me anyway.

**HLxDrummer** · 06-04-2009, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by EricDawg

Well I`m just an amateur, but I have been using my Porter Cable DA for a few years on my black Dakota, and a few other cars. It`s main feature is that it`s safe. It removes "rub marks" that look liks scratches but can`t be felt with a fingernail. It removes light swirls marks and water spots with ease with the right pad and compound. Deeper swirls can be frustrating, but I`ve had good luck with a yellow pad and a more abrasvie compound - 3M Rubbing Compound. I have to crank the speed to 6 and apply a lot of pressure to remove deeper swirls. For me it gets my car to a good point that looks great after polishing and it`s safe.

Have you thought about a Flex? That`s next on my list I think, but I`m very happy with the RA. I`ve removed a lot of rub marks, water spots, etc. from a lot of friends cars with ease. It`s a great tool to have around. I DO wish I had something that removed deeper swirls and scratches with ease and safety.

Best of luck to you.

Edit: Orange pads don`t do much for me for swirls. I always try them first, but yellow is the only pad that cuts through the swirls for me. Orange does good work on rub marks and water spots. Heck a white pad works for water spots for me anyway.

Really? I just ordered a G110 with 2 orange, 2 white, and one grey because I heard the yellow`s are becoming obsolete with these new compounds. Bummer

**EricDawg** · 06-04-2009, 06:14 PM

Absolutely. W/o yellow pads my truck would look like a big spider web on wheels. It`s the only pad that cleans em` up. Then again... it is black. And that`s using either 3M Rubbing Compound, Swirl Mark Remover, Menzerna Intensive Polish. Orange works some and is a good all around starting point for swirls. But I would definately pick up some yellow pads if I was you. Just my 2 cents.

**PerroneFord** · 06-04-2009, 07:36 PM

What is a DA capable of? With a strong compound, you can get right to bare metal. A rotary will be faster, but the idea that you can`t do full corrections with a DA is flawed.

Don`t believe it? Stand on some SSR3, M105, or PowerGloss for a few minutes in one spot with a 4" pad and see what happens.

**HLxDrummer** · 06-04-2009, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by EricDawg

Absolutely. W/o yellow pads my truck would look like a big spider web on wheels. It`s the only pad that cleans em` up. Then again... it is black. And that`s using either 3M Rubbing Compound, Swirl Mark Remover, Menzerna Intensive Polish. Orange works some and is a good all around starting point for swirls. But I would definately pick up some yellow pads if I was you. Just my 2 cents.

Hm.. I`ll have to look into getting some on my next order. Have you tried more aggressive compounds on the orange pad? Right now I`m trying to get a feel for how to combine pads and chemicals. For example, right now I have UC and Meg`s #9. Can I use #9 on a light cutting pad for some minor defects and use it on a grey pad for "jeweling" or will it really only work right on a polishing pad?

Originally Posted by SCoach

What is a DA capable of? With a strong compound, you can get right to bare metal. A rotary will be faster, but the idea that you can`t do full corrections with a DA is flawed.

Don`t believe it? Stand on some SSR3, M105, or PowerGloss for a few minutes in one spot with a 4" pad and see what happens.

That`s good to hear. Everyone really recommended getting a DA and I finally gave in but then I`ve been noticing more often that people are putting down a DA`s correction ability. I`m not really concerned with time that much, so good to hear

**craigdt** · 06-04-2009, 09:01 PM

Indeed. They can come close to doing what a rotary can. They just take longer.

Your PC will remove just about anything you want it to.

And my G110/orange pad/M105 or SSR2.5 has removed some very serious defects.

**BigAl3** · 06-04-2009, 09:01 PM

if you can afford the Flex 3401 VRG, get that. otherwise get the G110, or PC (new one should be out shortly). stay away from the griots D/A...

**imported_detail1** · 06-05-2009, 09:29 PM

I have used Porter Cable DA solely for the past 7 years and its use is limited. I purchased a FLEX last summer and it is incredible compared to the PC. U just have to be careful bc u can easily burn the paint- granted i was working on a 25 year old VW with original single stage paint.

I will use the FLEX only on a flat surface and not on edges.

The flex will probably save half the time of the PC.

**Accumulator** · 06-06-2009, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by caaznkid

So, what exactly is a dual action polisher capable of? I always read stuff about dual action polishers being overestimated. Is it only able to remove light swirl marks?

Properly equipped those polishers can do most anything that oughta be done and them some. The trick is the "properly equipped" part...that usually means 4" pads and it always means the right product.

I have an 04 Acura TL third gen in black and there are some....I don`t know...white scratches on the sides of my car. The scratches don`t catch my finger or anything, so I think they`re probably only clearcoat deep, most likely from rocks hitting my car. My question is, is a dual action polisher such as the porter cable 7424 capable of removing these scratches or would one have to have a rotary polisher? Because I can`t remove them by hand, I`ve already tried.

You *could* remove them by hand with the right stuff and enough time/effort; I remove fingernail scratches from behind Audi door handles by hand and your paint is a lot softer than that.

The PC *with a 4" pad* can remove those scratches and can even take you right down to bare metal if you overdo it. I sorta suspect that you shouldn`t take them out completely lest you overthin the clear.

And also, the best value`d dual action polisher I`ve found so far is the Griot`s Garage one. It can orbit from 2500-6800 rpm and the motor is 7 amps as opposed to the porter cable motor that is only 3.7 amps and only goes up to 6000rpm. Does anyone have this newer Griot`s Garage buffer model because I haven`t really been able to find any recent reviews of the Griot`s Garage Model, so some feedback would be nice. Anyway thank you for taking the time to read my questions and concerns everybody (:

The only thing I`d caution you about regarding the Griot`s polisher is to make certain it`ll accept a small backing plate for 4" pads. *Most* of these polishers take the same backing plate as the Porter Cable, but I don`t know about the Griot`s one and nobody I know has one.

There`s no way Griot`s will answer this question if it`s phrased in a straightforward manner (they`ll say "use our pads only!"), but you could call and ask them a) how the backing plate is mounted? (they`ll say "it screws on; the backing plate has a threaded male stud on its back side"), and b) what`s the size of the threaded post on the back of the backing plate? Then compare that with what`s available for the PC.

Somebody tested it on another forum (pretty sure it was at Meguiar`s Online :think: I`m not sure) and IIRC, despite initially favorable impressions they didn`t find it any better than the Meguiar`s brand polisher, which is comparable to the PC. But I`m not 100% certain about how well I`m recalling that and, well, you can guess how cynical one might be about comparisons to Meguiar`s products on a Meguiar`s forum

The only such polisher that I know of that`ll work effectively with 6" pads is the Flex 3401, which is one *very* nice machine (I simply love mine and I have other polishers to compare it to).

Oh, and Welcome to Autopia!

**Accumulator** · 06-06-2009, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by HLxDrummer

Hm..I`m trying to get a feel for how to combine pads and chemicals. For example, right now I have UC and Meg`s #9. Can I use #9 on a light cutting pad for some minor defects and use it on a grey pad for "jeweling" or will it really only work right on a polishing pad?

The #9 is too mild to be properly matched with any kind of cutting pad. The most aggressive pad I`d use it with is the *GRIOT`S* brand orange pad, which is completely different from anybody else`s orange pads.

Even then it won`t do much of *any* correction except on stupid-soft paint. #9 is just too gentle and all the concealing agents (heh heh, note that I didn`t say "fillers" :chuckle: ) end up doing all the work unless you`re using it via rotary.

EDIT: Hmm...wonder how #9 would work via Flex 3401 :think: Eh..I don`t like it enough to bother finding out.

I`d go from UC to something like Swirl-X or Scratch-X, or maybe #80.

**caaznkid** · 06-08-2009, 04:05 AM

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! I made the dive and ordered the griot`s one. Mainly because they have a satisfaction money back guarantee as well as a lifetime performance warranty, so if I`m unsatisfied with anything I can return it for a full refund. I`m pretty sure the orbital is capable of using a different backing plate, but the rep i spoke to said they wouldn`t advise it due to the fact that the counter weight is made for 6.5" and not 4" pads. Anyway, I`ll tell you how everything works out and if the griot`s orbital is worth buying.

**BigAl3** · 06-08-2009, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by caaznkid

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! I made the dive and ordered the griot`s one. Mainly because they have a satisfaction money back guarantee as well as a lifetime performance warranty, so if I`m unsatisfied with anything I can return it for a full refund. I`m pretty sure the orbital is capable of using a different backing plate, but the rep i spoke to said they wouldn`t advise it due to the fact that the counter weight is made for 6.5" and not 4" pads. Anyway, I`ll tell you how everything works out and if the griot`s orbital is worth buying.

you should of gotten the G110 or PC...

**HLxDrummer** · 06-08-2009, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by caaznkid

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! I made the dive and ordered the griot`s one. Mainly because they have a satisfaction money back guarantee as well as a lifetime performance warranty, so if I`m unsatisfied with anything I can return it for a full refund. I`m pretty sure the orbital is capable of using a different backing plate, but the rep i spoke to said they wouldn`t advise it due to the fact that the counter weight is made for 6.5" and not 4" pads. Anyway, I`ll tell you how everything works out and if the griot`s orbital is worth buying.

Hope it works great for ya. Definitely let us know what you think as I was interested in it as well when I was shopping around for DAs.