Cyclo > Flex ; + my Flex burnt my paint =(

**efnfast** · 05-08-2009, 11:40 PM

Just as a foreward, I`ve been using my cyclo fairly successfully for the last 2yrs; it will do, for example, a 95% correction on my Z06 clear. I figured I`d buy a Flex to see if it has some extra oomph.

It definately has more power than the lil` cyclo; I was able to remove a few marks that I`ve never been able to before. However, in the long run, I found the cyclo to be just as good. I separated several panels on my g35 and tried my usual cyclo routine (orange/SIP, green/106) and the Flex (orange/SIP, white/106). To my eye, the cyclo did a weeeeeee bit of a better job overall (which could be due to my inexperience with the Flex, don`t know). Perhaps if I were a professional detailer I wouldn`t like it as much, but for taking care of my 5cars, it does a pretty good job.

Now the bad news - I tried to get out a scratch that has vexed me for the last 7yrs and I burnt the paint with my Flex. Totally my fault - I got frustrated and used a yellow Lake Country pad with Menzerna Power Gloss (highest cut) at speed 6. It was directly underneath the door jamb, and when doing it I got into a coughing fit and accidently stopped and pressed the Flex down fairly hard. When I looked, I had a 5`` strip of burnt clear along the edge of the door jamb :grrr

Totally my fault for not pulling the buffer back and stopping it, and also for going too aggressive =(

So in my opinion, the cyclo (Again, speaking as a non-prof. detailer) is better than the Flex because it seems to be able to do 98% of the what hte Flex can, with the added safety that I can put a yellow scrubbing pad on it, STAND ontop of the cyclo and leave it sitting in 1 spot for an hour and I still probably wouldn`t burn the paint (okay, a bit extreme, but you get what I`m saying

)

Oh yea, I also got my cyclo wool cutting pads today - I don`t know why everybody doesn`t like these? :think:

Granted, they look retarded, almost like somebody took a baby sheep and glued it onto the back of a velcro pad, BUT they do work quite well for correcting relatively serious defects.

Cyclo :2thumbs:

Now, after spending $500 on the Flex+Flex accessories I have to go buy some GLoss-It polish since cyclo users are raving about that brand and how well it works with the cyclo :clap:

**Setec Astronomy** · 05-09-2009, 05:30 AM

About that burned spot, when you say under the door jamb, were you on a piece of plastic cladding? Plastic has very poor thermal conductivity compared to metal and you always need to be much more careful (even with a PC) on especially the softer plastics like bumper covers and some of that lower body stuff. There was a thread a long time ago where someone just melted the paint off some under-door cladding on a blue WRX, just like you did.

**SuperBee364** · 05-09-2009, 08:56 AM

Are you sure it`s burned through? Post some pics... Yellow LC foam leaves nasty compounding marks, especially with a DA style buffer. It can fool you into thinking that you`ve burned through.

I thought for sure that by now the Obama administration would ban Yellow LC pads. I know it`s the first thing I`d do as president.

**efnfast** · 05-09-2009, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

About that burned spot, when you say under the door jamb, were you on a piece of plastic cladding? Plastic has very poor thermal conductivity compared to metal and you always need to be much more careful (even with a PC) on especially the softer plastics like bumper covers and some of that lower body stuff. There was a thread a long time ago where someone just melted the paint off some under-door cladding on a blue WRX, just like you did.

It was the edge of the door jam - if you think of the door jam in its entirety, it`s like an oval/circle. I burnt around the edge of the oval/circle because that`s where the buffer stopped and was angled slightly.

Originally Posted by SuperBee364

Are you sure it`s burned through? Post some pics... Yellow LC foam leaves nasty compounding marks, especially with a DA style buffer. It can fool you into thinking that you`ve burned through.

I thought for sure that by now the Obama administration would ban Yellow LC pads. I know it`s the first thing I`d do as president.

Definately not compounding mark - the clear was VERY milkey white. No pics because i covered it up with a bit of touchpaint. Because of the area it blends in `okay`, but still visible to my eye to remind me of what happens when I do stupid ****.

**Accumulator** · 05-09-2009, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by efnfast

Just as a foreward, I`ve been using my cyclo fairly successfully for the last 2yrs; it will do, for example, a 95% correction on my Z06 clear.. However, in the long run, I found the cyclo to be just as good. I separated several panels on my g35 and tried my usual cyclo routine (orange/SIP, green/106) and the Flex (orange/SIP, white/106). To my eye, the cyclo did a weeeeeee bit of a better job overall . ..

I never get all that impressive correction via Cyclo (at least not on hard clear), but I do think it finishes out nicer than the Flex. I switch from the Flex to the Cyclo as soon as the serious correction is done same as I used to switch from the rotaryies to the Cyclo.

Now the bad news ..

Sorry to hear about that. Note that you could`ve done the same damage with a PC/4" yellow. No matter what you just gotta stay on top of things literally every second when you`re being aggressive.

So in my opinion, the cyclo (Again, speaking as a non-prof. detailer) is better than the Flex because it seems to be able to do 98% of the what hte Flex can, with the added safety that I can put a yellow scrubbing pad on it, STAND ontop of the cyclo and leave it sitting in 1 spot for an hour and I still probably wouldn`t burn the paint (okay, a bit extreme, but you get what I`m saying

)

Eh...if the Cyclo does the correction for you that`s one thing, on harder clears it just doesn`t do the work for me. The Flex knocks *hours* off the job in my case.

But as for being able to use careless techniques, well...I wouldn`t want to really put the idiot-proof thing to a real test

I mean really...I don`t allow my concentration to wander for a split-second even when I`m just applying wax.

I know you feel bad about what happened and I don`t mean to rub it in, but I`d make sure you`re blaming yourself for the real mistake.

Heh heh..I`m always saying how a *rotary* won`t hurt your paint unless you do something I`d never expect!

Oh yea, I also got my cyclo wool cutting pads today - I don`t know why everybody doesn`t like these?

I didn`t like them because they didn`t do as much correction as I woulda expected. Using 1Z Pasta Inensiv they simply didn`t go the correction as well as foam cutting pads for some reason :think:

I tried them on a PC and they didn`t do well on that either. I like PFW *much* better but maybe the Cyclo wool (they`re the same as Edge wool) would work a lot better with a different product like Power Gloss or M105 or maybe the Gloss It.

**efnfast** · 05-09-2009, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

I never get all that impressive correction via Cyclo (at least not on hard clear), but I do think it finishes out nicer than the Flex. I switch from the Flex to the Cyclo as soon as the serious correction is done same as I used to switch from the rotaryies to the Cyclo.

Sorry to hear about that. Note that you could`ve done the same damage with a PC/4" yellow. No matter what you just gotta stay on top of things literally every second when you`re being aggressive.

I know you feel bad about what happened and I don`t mean to rub it in, but I`d make sure you`re blaming yourself for the real mistake.

I didn`t like them because they didn`t do as much correction as I woulda expected. Using 1Z Pasta Inensiv they simply didn`t go the correction as well as foam cutting pads for some reason :think:

I can do about a 90% correction on my z06 with orange/SIP - I`d bet a flex orange/sip would be able to bump it up to 95% in a shorter work time though. I don`t plan on selling my Flex, I just don`t plan on using it unless I`ve got some serious correction that needs getting done.

I definitely don`t blame the Flex - as I said, bad luck, wasn`t thinking, doing something stupid. **** happens. Just sucks when it happens to me =)

I found the wool pads work fairly well with SIP. Using 1z PI, I got next to no correction with them (same with other products like as Meguiars 105). The SIP and 106 seem to work fairly well though with the cyclo products.

I`m going to try some gloss it products since they seem designed to work well with the cyclo (instead of the cyclo just being an afterthought) and report back - if they (gloss it products) cut better than SIP I`ll be like :getdown

edit: Right now my intention is to do my usual correction - cyclo/orange/SIP. If that fails, cyclo/wool/SIP, and if that fails, then flex/orange/SIP or flex/yellow/SIP if the panel has sufficient clear and is perfectly straight. I`m not doing this for a living, so 90-95% correction is my eyes is just as good as 100% (I know, I know, that`s sacrilegious talk on Autopia =) )

**Accumulator** · 05-09-2009, 12:43 PM

efnfast- Heh heh, as far as I`m concerned if a person`s car looks good *to them* then it looks good period

Just never know how some of those "100%" vehicles would look in person anyhow

Isn`t it weird about the wool pads on the Cyclo?!? So they do work with SIP huh? It`ll be interesting to hear what you think of the Gloss It stuff.

I also wonder how the SurBuff pads would work on the Cyclo with M105 :think:

**efnfast** · 05-09-2009, 01:34 PM

Neer heard of SurBuff before. However, I had 100% better luck with 105 by hand than on the cyclo.

It`s funny because I`ve had fairly poor experiences with Meguiar`s lineup on the cyclo, other than 83. Everything else either really hazed up (and I had to go over it with another polish to remove) or just didn`t work. :think:

**dan46n2** · 05-09-2009, 04:58 PM

I don`t see why people like the Flex, if you want serious correction use a rotary, if you just need to rub off some glaze or wax use the PC. The Flex seems like an inferior rotary or a very powerful PC which isn`t necessary for minor correction or just removing residual product (just more risk for damage).

**Accumulator** · 05-10-2009, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by efnfast

It`s funny because I`ve had fairly poor experiences with Meguiar`s lineup on the cyclo, other than 83. Everything else either really hazed up (and I had to go over it with another polish to remove) or just didn`t work. :think:

I never really liked Meg`s stuff via Cyclo either. #80 works OK though. I like the Cyclo better with 1Z and the old 3M PI-III line (RC 05933 and MG 05937).

Originally Posted by dan46n2

I don`t see why people like the Flex, if you want serious correction use a rotary, if you just need to rub off some glaze or wax use the PC. The Flex seems like an inferior rotary or a very powerful PC which isn`t necessary for minor correction or just removing residual product (just more risk for damage).

[shrug] to each their own, but I have a fair amount of rotary experience and I sure like using my Flex 3401 better than either of my (Makita or Metabo) rotaries.

I consider it more like a *superior* rotary because it doesn`t leave holograms. And there`s no learning curve related to sling and heat-related issues (I don`t consider efnfast`s unfortunate "oops!" to be all that Flex-centric; he coulda done the same damage with a PC/4" or *worse* damage with a rotary). Plus, it has a D/A-feel to it as opposed to a rotary-feel. Some of us simply like that better (and vice-versa).

The situations in which my rotaries are functionally superior seem very few and far between, and none of them are likely to be something a typical layman is likely to encounter (or be skilled enough to pull off).

If somebody simply *likes* a rotary better, cool. But I`d wager that most people who`ve used both the Flex and rotaries will say they like the Flex. And IMO it takes first-hand experience to know whether you like something like that.

**WaxManRonnie** · 05-11-2009, 02:45 PM

A yellow pad at speed 6? I think thats where you went wrong.

I don`t think you should be using the yellow one at that speed.

**brwill2005** · 05-11-2009, 04:26 PM

The Cyclo is a very good underrated machine. When combined with the correct pad/product combination, it will correct. Best of all, it is so easy and pleasant to use.

**zoomzoom3** · 05-14-2009, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by WaxManRonnie

A yellow pad at speed 6? I think thats where you went wrong.

I don`t think you should be using the yellow one at that speed.

Yeah that`s what I thought, that`s extremely aggressive & I don`t think a yellow pad/speed 6 should be used on anything, but that`s just my opinion.

**efnfast** · 05-14-2009, 01:48 AM

Out of curiousity, for future reference, what speed/pad combos would you avoid?

For example, for mild corrections no more than orange/speed 5

etc....

I know it`s a broad question, but when I research the Flex on here I get so much confusing information. For example, yellow pads are the devil at higher speeds (make sense). Orange pads are a paint burn waiting to happen at any speed (huh?). Etc....

**Lumadar** · 05-14-2009, 01:51 AM

Maybe I am just a wuss, but I avoid the LC Yellow pad completely.

Why use LC Yellow when you could use something like PFW with the same cut and a better finish? Just seems silly to me... but it could just be me