Kevin Brown Method - My understanding

[gmblack3]

Damn really?? My 12oz sampler won`t last very long with this method then. :hairpull

Thats why they call it a sample. :spit:

[jmkiang]

^ Well no sht but still. Haha guess the KBM just requires more product.

[SuperBee364]

Bryan, are you pretty much using the PC now as your primary machine instead of the rotary? The last two cars I did, I started and finished with a PC. However, the old formula 105 with a rotary and PFW does huge correction, does it fast, and finishes out *very* well. Certainly well enough for 205 to bat cleanup afterward.

[Accumulator]

..No need for water with M105 when using a foam pad...

Hmm...interesting. I *did* use water to keep the pad moist when using M105 in a sorta-KBM manner. This was the older version and it seemed prone to drying out without the added moisture.



Using the water (very sparingly, I didn`t want to drastically change the M105`s characteristics by using too much) seemed to work fine. I also experimented with Meg`s #34, which also seemed to work well especially when cleaning the pad when necessary (as you noted, clear/etc. can build up on the pad).



You have far more experience with this M105-centric stuff than I do so I`m wondering how you`re getting by without the water :think:

However, the old formula 105 with a rotary and PFW does huge correction, does it fast..

Heh heh, I should think that`s a bit of an understatement :chuckle:



Finishes out well enough for a M205 follow-up huh? Was this on hard/soft/what paint?

[gmblack3]

^ Well no sht but still. Haha guess the KBM just requires more product.

Sorry I could not resist. Yes more then a standard polishing method.

Bryan, are you pretty much using the PC now as your primary machine instead of the rotary? The last two cars I did, I started and finished with a PC. However, the old formula 105 with a rotary and PFW does huge correction, does it fast, and finishes out *very* well. Certainly well enough for 205 to bat cleanup afterward.

Yes PC only for the last 6-8 cars. I almost got out the rotary (via KBRM) as the hood on the porsche is a very hard repaint, but I used the surbuf pads via PC and 2x of that got everything out.

Hmm...interesting. I *did* use water to keep the pad moist when using M105 in a sorta-KBM manner. This was the older version and it seemed prone to drying out without the added moisture.



Using the water (very sparingly, I didn`t want to drastically change the M105`s characteristics by using too much) seemed to work fine. I also experimented with Meg`s #34, which also seemed to work well especially when cleaning the pad when necessary (as you noted, clear/etc. can build up on the pad).



You have far more experience with this M105-centric stuff than I do so I`m wondering how you`re getting by without the water :think:

Keeping the pad well primed helps.



On this prosche I started mixing new and old M105 on the pad when priming. I`d say 60% new and 40% old and it wipes away very easy.

[todd@bsaw]

Wow, maybe I should be reading the forums more than just skimming the Pro section once every few weeks. I didn`t know this was such a huge topic.



I discovered this just recently while working on a ravaged e39 M5 in jet black. I used my PC with M105 and a burgundy pad for almost the entire car and finished with M80 with stellar results using basically the same technique that`s been described already. It went by much faster than using the wool on a rotary.



I tried it again on a black Celica, but I only have one burgundy pad and 5 wool pads, so the foam pad got caked with the SS paint and became useless. I went out and bought a dozen foam pads the next day.



I have a feeling my wool pads and rotary are going back on the shelf next to my cyclo for a while...

[Thomas Dekany]

Wow, maybe I should be reading the forums more than just skimming the Pro section once every few weeks. I didn`t know this was such a huge topic.



I discovered this just recently while working on a ravaged e39 M5 in jet black. I used my PC with M105 and a burgundy pad for almost the entire car and finished with M80 with stellar results using basically the same technique that`s been described already. It went by much faster than using the wool on a rotary.



I tried it again on a black Celica, but I only have one burgundy pad and 5 wool pads, so the foam pad got caked with the SS paint and became useless. I went out and bought a dozen foam pads the next day.



I have a feeling my wool pads and rotary are going back on the shelf next to my cyclo for a while...

Interesting that 6 months ago ""someone"" made fun of us for posting C&Bs 2 years ago using nothing but a pc.



How funny is it that now that person is pushing the pc over the rotary.:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::grrr:grrr:grrr

[imported_Detailing Technology]

Like the owl - who who..

[SuperBee364]

Finishes out well enough for a M205 follow-up huh? Was this on hard/soft/what paint?

Soft and softer.

[pingable]

I must ask for all you pros with paint meters. Have any of ya`ll done a 50/50 lets say with panel A with M105 and panel B side with SIP / correcting down to a similar degree and then measured the paint ..



I have yet to drink the M105 koolaid just yet.

Not a Pro Detailer so while I appreciate my time...I`m happy with the results I get with SIP, 105 and 85. Time as as time saved with M105



And while the results/time saved via M105 are intriguing, I just can`t past the diminishing vs. non diminishing aspects of things...



Do I have to pay MORE care, when using M105 and a white pad ? Even with a PC or DA ? --- My current tool of choice is Roto with 106FA as the 1st polish I`m generally picking up...



I`m more scared to run with M105 in lieu of eating more CC than I should be than the thought of me when I 1st picked up the rotary...

[Legacy]

I must ask for all you pros with paint meters. Have any of ya`ll done a 50/50 lets say with panel A with M105 and panel B side with SIP / correcting down to a similar degree and then measured the paint ..



I have yet to drink the M105 koolaid just yet.

Not a Pro Detailer so while I appreciate my time...I`m happy with the results I get with SIP, 105 and 85. Time as as time saved with M105



And while the results/time saved via M105 are intriguing, I just can`t past the diminishing vs. non diminishing aspects of things...



Do I have to pay MORE care, when using M105 and a white pad ? Even with a PC or DA ? --- My current tool of choice is Roto with 106FA as the 1st polish I`m generally picking up...



I`m more scared to run with M105 in lieu of eating more CC than I should be than the thought of me when I 1st picked up the rotary...

It sounds like your paint is in good condition, so why not just use 85 to clean it up before LSP? 105/205 would be for neglected paint.

[gmblack3]

Wow, maybe I should be reading the forums more than just skimming the Pro section once every few weeks. I didn`t know this was such a huge topic.



I discovered this just recently while working on a ravaged e39 M5 in jet black. I used my PC with M105 and a burgundy pad for almost the entire car and finished with M80 with stellar results using basically the same technique that`s been described already. It went by much faster than using the wool on a rotary.



I tried it again on a black Celica, but I only have one burgundy pad and 5 wool pads, so the foam pad got caked with the SS paint and became useless. I went out and bought a dozen foam pads the next day.



I have a feeling my wool pads and rotary are going back on the shelf next to my cyclo for a while...

Speaking of pads to use with KBM, I got a few of the classic orange LCs that CMA sells. I much prefer these over the ABC orange pads that I have been using on the last 5 cars. They cut better and as long as I brush them and blow compressed air across the surface to remove the dust, I can use them on 3 panels. With the ABC pads, I usually had to clean them with water and APC after 1 panel. Also the same pads in black work great IME with M205.

I must ask for all you pros with paint meters. Have any of ya`ll done a 50/50 lets say with panel A with M105 and panel B side with SIP / correcting down to a similar degree and then measured the paint ..



I have yet to drink the M105 koolaid just yet.

Not a Pro Detailer so while I appreciate my time...I`m happy with the results I get with SIP, 105 and 85. Time as as time saved with M105



And while the results/time saved via M105 are intriguing, I just can`t past the diminishing vs. non diminishing aspects of things...



Do I have to pay MORE care, when using M105 and a white pad ? Even with a PC or DA ? --- My current tool of choice is Roto with 106FA as the 1st polish I`m generally picking up...



I`m more scared to run with M105 in lieu of eating more CC than I should be than the thought of me when I 1st picked up the rotary...

I took around 20 readings with my DFT Combo where I had a tape line. If you have a PTG you will know that clearcoat readings can vary in areas as small as 1 sq inch. Using the mill setting I could not read a reduction in CC thickness, switching to microns I had found 2 places out of the 10 side by side reading that I did where the reading was reduced by 1 micron.



Here is the area where I took the readings on an Infiniti M35:







Now people using different techniques may produce different results.

[Accumulator]

gmblack3a- I`ll have to work on my M105 technique a bit...the more I use it the more I`ll figure it out. I need to use more product than I usually do..



And yeah, you`re not kidding about how ETG readings can vary!



chefwong- While M105 can be abused IMO, as long as you`re only taking off the amount of (marred) clear that you really need/intend to remove I don`t think it`s any different from doing the work with any othe product. When I removed the light marring on my Yukon`s hood I was using M105 but I didn`t take off much of any clear as I quite the second the problem was solved. When doing some RIDS on that hood, I quit well short of 100% on a deep (previously existing) one; just rounded it a little more. The M105 wasn`t taking off much clear it was just doing it efficiently (i.e., nice and quick).



SuperBee364- You *always* seem to get PFW pads to finish out well!

[gmblack3]

gmblack3a- I`ll have to work on my M105 technique a bit...the more I use it the more I`ll figure it out. I need to use more product than I usually do..



And yeah, you`re not kidding about how ETG readings can vary!

IMO its not the readings that vary, its the variance in CC thickness from one spot to another.

[Accumulator]

IMO its not the readings that vary, its the variance in CC thickness from one spot to another.

Sorry, I wasn`t clear That`s what I meant...



The varying readings *in the same place* are another matter, and one that gives me fits with my PhaseII. It`s gotta be user-error but I`ve used other ETGs with zero prolems like this...just figures the one I actually *bought* is the one I have trouble with!



Oh, and I took your advice to heart yesterday when I polished the hood of my wife`s A8 with M105; I primed the pads a bit more than usual (still not so much as to clog the pores) and I didn`t have to mist with water until I was *almost* finished. Yeah, I coulda added more but it seemed like it`d be a waste of my product (v1.0 which I want to conserve).



I was sorta surprised how mild the M105 was via Flex/orange (and by PC/4" orange when I needed to concentrate on small areas), but that car has hard clear. The repainted hood is starting to have issues so I didn`t shoot for 100%, but hey, M105 via Flex is still a nice way to go on hard-clear cars and zero splatter/holograms made the whole thing go quicker than I woulda done by rotary.



(She had to get the car serviced in TN and despite her explicit "don`t wash it", well...they did. *One* dealership wash can sure do a lot of damage. Virtually *all* this marring was in directions/motions that I simply don`t do.)



Not sure if it was necessary, but I gave it a quick pass with Flex/8006/M105 after the aggressive work, and for this I didn`t use much pressure at all. IPA wipe (see SuperBee364, I`m not close-minded about doing those ) didn`t reveal any surprises though I *was* tempted to get really aggressive on the residual (and at least now very rounded-over) marring.



Final polishing was Flex/9006/1Z HG, plenty of pressure at first then lightened it to where I was jus burnishing with only the weight of the machine. I don`t think it turned out quite as nice as when I burnish with 1Z HG using the Cyclo and very soft finishing pads, but it still looks OK.