Difference between: Compounding, Polishing, Finishing, Burnishing, Jeweling?

[SiegeX]

Below are the definitions of what I think they mean, although I`m really unsure about burnishing and jeweling:



Compounding: This step uses heavy cut `rocks in a bottle` type polish/compound to get out some seriously deep swirls and scratches. It can be skipped if the car is in decent shape.



Polishing: This step should always follow compounding and/or can be the starting point for a car with lite swirls and scratches either caused by the compounding step or general use of the car.



Finishing: This is the step where you apply the `Last Step Product` such as a quality wax



Burnishing: ??????????



Jeweling: ???????????





I noticed through some other threads that people apply a base coat of products before they apply the wax. Example would be Klasse AIO ---> Klasse SG ---> Quality Wax. Are all three of these steps considered to be done in the `Finishing` step, or do these spread out over finishing, burnishing and jeweling?

[Legacy]

Burnishing/jeweling is basically the same. It`s done with a black, blue or red pad that has no cut after polishing. This will give you that extra pop before LSP. After I use Menz 106ff for light correction, I like to finish off with 87mc with a blue pad.

[SiegeX]

Ahh, so burnishing/jeweling comes before `Finishing`?



So I guess that means applying a base coat then wax is all under the `Finishing` stage?

[Eliot Ness]

Ahh, so burnishing/jeweling comes before `Finishing`?



So I guess that means applying a base coat then wax is all under the `Finishing` stage?

Actually I consider the `finishing stage` (as you call it) to be the last step in polishing before the burnishing stage. When you start out compounding it usually takes two more steps to get the paint acceptable.



The LSP (last step product) stage is where you apply your sealant and/or wax.

[danponjican]

Just fancier words for final polishing steps. Perhaps there is a increment level of less cutting with the so called "Burnishing" or "Jeweling". But it is all just final polishing.

[Todd@RUPES]

Just fancier words for final polishing steps. Perhaps there is a increment level of less cutting with the so called "Burnishing" or "Jeweling". But it is all just final polishing.

Yes and no I suppose....



Jewelling the paint is a term that has been around for a long time. I believe that somebody had posted that a long time ago body shops would call it jeweling because they would have to re-buff single stage paint`s a week or two later.



If we rewind this forum to a year ago, most people where finishing paint with their rotary using a white lake country pad and a polish like Menzerna 106ff. I had noticed at the time that FEW of my client`s cars would have VERY light hologramming appearing two or three months after polishing (despite wiping the paint with alochol, etc).



At the time a white pad and a finishing polish where considered "finishing" as you put it.



So I posted on this forum that I saw 106ff filling and got blasted by pretty much everybody who had just started to use a rotary and thought they where getting perfect results. After contacting several companies including Meguiars`, Lake Country, Edge, and polish manufacturers and forumulators, I came up with a reason why I felt that Menzerna could be masking.



What I was shocked to learn was that Meguiars` had always recommended finishing by rotary with a finishing pad. When I spoke to them, it made sense why. Then I spoke with several pad manufacturers who all agreed.... Finishing with a rotary with a pad that has some mechanical abrasion is going to potenitally cause microscopic abrasions that hold in the oils of the polish, and could fill slightly.



I questioned Lake Country to why they recommend (per product description at the time) that final polishing take place with a white pad and not a finishing pad. The reasoning made sense as well.... We are a SMALL part of the industry, most pad manufacturers aim more towards the body shop people. In a body shop, they generally finish with a glaze after polishing, which is why the descriptions for the pads always recommended using a glaze with that pad.



What we do is finish paint with out glazes and oils, and we use our own terminology. While a LC white pad might produce an acceptable finish to a body shop (before glazing) it really is a polishing pad that needs to be finished with something softer.



So I am working on a clients car (after "finishing" with a white pad) and pull it out in the sun. It looks perfect, but experience and research has taught me that I need to go back over it with a non-mechanical (glazing) pad and a final polish. The client asks me,"So the car is perfect, what are you doing? Jewelling it?"



It sounded good, so on my click and brags I started using the term "jewelling" to describe the step after finishing (which again was done with mechanical pads at the time on this forum and others). Obviously I am not the first one to use the term jewelling (body shop used it in the 1950`s) and I am sure some other detailers have used it before, but until I started posting on about it in my click and brags, nobody was using it with any regularity.



I also noticed that by going back over the paint with a non-mechanical "glazing" pad that the paint seemed to increase visually, since the microscopic damage on the paint`s surface was reduced. So not only does this step (when done after finishing) possibly promote more gloss, but it has helped eliminate the chance occurance of holograms reappearing. As it stands today, I would never consider finishing the paint with anything more aggressive then "glazing" pad.



Now again, this is nothing different then what Meguiars` has been preaching all along (finshing with a non-mechanical pad).



So my definition of term would be something like this..... Polishing the paint with the sole intent of increasing maximum gloss by reducing micrscopic pad abrasion on the paint`s surface. Only carried out when the paint already appears to be perfect.



As far as the term burnish, Rydawg and I kind of came up this that. We had both started calling it `jewelling` long before I posted about it and when nobody on the forum used that term. When I started using it, I noticed it popping up more and more, and people finishing with non-mechanical pads more and more. Everybody called it jewelling, which we thought was a riot. So I told Ryan and I am going switch gears and start calling it burnishing, to see if this term would catch on too. So I did, and sure enough it started creeping it`s ways in. As far a I use them, they are the same.



By autopia traditonal detailing standard...



Compounding/Cutting/Defect Removal- Using an aggressive pad and compound/polish designed to quickly level the paint and remove the defects... Depending on the depth of the defects, it may take several passes



Polishing- Refining the finish by removing light defects (either light marring or damage instilled by the compounding process). What ever steps are used to remove the light marring would be considered polishing (with out going to a compound or agressive set up that will require at least two more steps)



Finishing- Done by using a low cut pad and a finishing polish. Helps refine the paint, removing any trace damage from the polishing stage. At this point, only one application should be needed because the defects remaing from the polishing should be very light.



Burinishing/Jewelling (Meguiars` calls this finishing)- A optional step after finishing, done with a non-mechanical pad and an ultra fine polish. For the sole intent of removing any microscopic (and possibly invisible) pad abrasion from the finishing step. Reduces the chance of holograms or pad abrasion holograms appearing months down the road and may increase the gloss of the paint further (most people feel it does)

[danponjican]

To me, you are just over complicating what is the final polishing stage. We don`t need two more terms to explain the final perfection of the paint by use of a final polish/pad combo. That is still final polish to me no matter how you spin it.



Granted different paint finishes will require different levels of pad and polishes to get perfection (i.e. softer CCs will force you to use no-cut pads will lighter polishes) and they may even require you to polish a second time, but it is still polishing.



Come on guys... do we really need to make up new terms for this? You know how fickle people can be... the next thing you know, we`ll have some manufacturer selling a whole premium line of products specially formulated to "burnishing" or "jeweling".

[Todd@RUPES]

To me, you are just over complicating what is the final polishing stage. We don`t need two more terms to explain the final perfection of the paint by use of a final polish/pad combo. That is still final polish to me no matter how you spin it.



Granted different paint finishes will require different levels of pad and polishes to get perfection (i.e. softer CCs will force you to use no-cut pads will lighter polishes) and they may even require you to polish a second time, but it is still polishing.



Come on guys... do we really need to make up new terms for this? You know how fickle people can be... the next thing you know, we`ll have some manufacturer selling a whole premium line of products specially formulated to "burnishing" or "jeweling".

Grabbing a PC or rotary and repeating steps isn`t complicated and you may get good results...



However getting true perfection from the paint is very complicated, so why would I want to simplfy it? Anybody who thinks getting true, long lasting results, is as simple as repeating processes on the paint simply has never done it or has never seen it done.



Why would I want to make something that is complicated and difficult to do sound easy? Keep in mind that getting results is easy and not very time consuming, infact with a little experience, I think everybody could turn out car`s that reach 90% of their maximum potential. However I know that get that last 10% is very hard and you have to work for it and understand it... I am not talking about correction either, getting cars perfect in terms of defect removal is easy, remove the paint until they are gone. But what about the refining and micro polishing that occurs after...



So to me, your response sounds like you stop polishing once the car looks perfect (or good) and call it quits. I personally think you are leaving a lot on the table in terms of gloss though as I really don`t start polishing (or jewelling as I call it) until the car is perfect..



It`s different approaches and neither of us are right/wrong/whatever...

[imported_Jakerooni]

But the problem is todd.. You`re trying extreamly hard to make it sound like he`s very wrong with how he does things. Perfection is in the eye of the client really. regardless of what you, I, or any other detailer on this site thinks. If the customer thinks it`s perfect enough to pay for it then it`s perfect. If they don`t you keep going. But telling someone that they obviously can`t do the last 10% of perfection and that they obviously aren`t on the same level as you because "they choose to stop at what looked like perfection" and then saying neither is right or wrong is a little hypocritical don`t you think?

[Flashtime]

Compounding (Cutting/Defect Removal)- Using an aggressive pad and compound/polish designed to quickly level the paint and remove the defects... Depending on the depth of the defects, it may take several passes



Polishing- Refining the finish by removing light defects (either light marring or damage instilled by the compounding process). What ever steps are used to remove the light marring would be considered polishing (with out going to a compound or agressive set up that will require at least two more steps)



Finishing- Done by using a low cut pad and a finishing polish. Helps refine the paint, removing any trace damage from the polishing stage. At this point, only one application should be needed because the defects remaing from the polishing should be very light.



Burinishing/Jewelling (Meguiars` calls this finishing)- A optional step after finishing, done with a non-mechanical pad and an ultra fine polish. For the sole intent of removing any microscopic (and possibly invisible) pad abrasion from the finishing step. Reduces the chance of holograms or pad abrasion holograms appearing months down the road and may increase the gloss of the paint further (most people feel it does)

Sounds very uncomplicated and straight forward.

[SamXp]

Marketing 101. Establish unique terminology to provide perceived value, when in reality all of the terms are essentially referring to incrementally finer degrees of final polishing. I use marketing fluff plenty of times in other instances (can`t say I`ve ever told a customer I "jeweled" their car, though. That`s a new one to me). Helps the customer feel as if they got something really special and makes them feel good about the money they just shelled out for a quality detail. And that`s what it`s all about, right? Providing a service that leaves the customer happy and satisfied?



There is a downside, though, in that entry-level detailers can become confused with the varying terminology used to describe essentially the same process. I save the flowery verbiage for marketing material and stick to basic terms when discussing the process here.

[Todd@RUPES]

But the problem is todd.. You`re trying extreamly hard to make it sound like he`s very wrong with how he does things. Perfection is in the eye of the client really. regardless of what you, I, or any other detailer on this site thinks. If the customer thinks it`s perfect enough to pay for it then it`s perfect. If they don`t you keep going. But telling someone that they obviously can`t do the last 10% of perfection and that they obviously aren`t on the same level as you because "they choose to stop at what looked like perfection" and then saying neither is right or wrong is a little hypocritical don`t you think?

Honestly Jake, the problem is that I speak (or type) very factualy which comes across bluntly because I don`t flower it up.



Like I told you in PMs and people that call me, there is no right or wrong way. If youare in a business to make money then make money, period.



I do this because I love it and I love the challenge of improving myself and the quality of work I do. What other people do is up to them, but through constant improvement, experience, research, and analization, I feel that I have gotten better and better. I look at the finishes that people told me looked amazing 1 year ago and I feel I can so much better now and I am enthusastic of how much room for improvement exists...



However, I never said Dan isn`t doing a good job or that his clients are not happy or his results don`t last or whatever. The only thing I disagree with him on is that we should take something that is truely involved and make it sound simple. I used to think it was simple to until I really strived to improve myself, this doesn`t mean that I am better then anybody or I "was" where he "is" at all. I am only relating my personal experience and how it effected me.



Honestly I feel like a polictian sometimes because I cannot say what I feel with out people trying to put words in my mouth.



I say, "Experience has taught me that you cannot skip a step, polishing is hard..."



People hear "Todd thinks he is better then everybody and here he goes again telling people they are wrong. Todd thinks he is so great..."



I say, "I started using a term (for a different process) that has been around for a while to define a step that Meguiars has been recommending the whole time"



People hear "Todd thinks he invented a term and thinks he is so much better then other people. He thinks he is the first one ever to polish with a finishing pad..."



I also fail to see where I am trying hard to make it sound like he doesn`t know what he is doing and I apologize for that IF that is how he read my post. In his business or in his experience finishing polish is finishing polish, my experience has taught me (through trial and error) that some paints can be refined further.... If this is an insult or somehow makes it sound like I am on a pedestal because I am sharing my opinions then I really don`t know what to do..



My experience has shown me that for maximum results he is wrong Dan`s experience is the opposite and he probably feels that I am wrong. It is not personal, it is a difference of opinion and experience and his is just as valuable as mine. His experience has taught him differently and that I am wrong, and I respect it the same, so again I fail to see your point.

[SamXp]

If you continually feel that you are attacked, then perhaps it is time to take a close look at how your present yourself in word and deed.



I don`t think any of us are talking about degree of difficulty. I don`t feel as if final polish is any more difficult than, say, a heavy correction pass with a wool pad. It`s just another step. I won`t speak for any other, but when you apply unique terminology to a process, you are insinuating that the process is unique.

In this instance, the process is not unique. It`s still polishing, only with a finer (as in abrasive, not quality) polish/pad combination.

[jimmybuffit]

I read this type of thread with great interest, but seldom respond, as the comments are usually spot on.



I`ve associated the term `burnishing` with metal polishing, but it certainly applies to paint correction as well. Jeweling? Of course it applies also, but I`m not sure I can use it in conversation. Well, not with a straight face, anyway. :grinno:



Overall, what we really want is to exceed customer expectations. Soccer moms have a set of expectations for their silver Odyssey, and the owner of a Ferrari 599 may well have a totally separate level of expectation.



You have to make the call for your situation.



Here`s a recent vehicle we did to the owner`s satisfaction, with a unique finishing touch:woot:

[Todd@RUPES]

If you continually feel that you are attacked, then perhaps it is time to take a close look at how your present yourself in word and deed.



I don`t think any of us are talking about degree of difficulty. I don`t feel as if final polish is any more difficult than, say, a heavy correction pass with a wool pad. It`s just another step. I won`t speak for any other, but when you apply unique terminology to a process, you are insinuating that the process is unique.

In this instance, the process is not unique. It`s still polishing, only with a finer (as in abrasive, not quality) polish/pad combination.

I disagree 100%. I think that true final polishing (or jewelling as I call it) with out the use of fillers and oils is one of the hardest steps to complete correctly. My experience has been that people who think it is easy do not wipe the paint down and check its true condition. This isn`t in reference to you, only real world experience.



Compounding is easy.. Move the pad around, wipe the compound off.... Check, repeat if necessary...