Applying Epic Via UDM...Am I Doing Something Wrong?

**JBSpeed** · 10-14-2007, 02:30 PM

OK, as I am new to the whole detailing scene, I`m learning my way around things. I picked up a UDM kit a while back, and just picked up a polish package from Prima, which includes Cut, Swirl, Finish, Amigo, Epic, and Hydro.

But here is my problem, when applying Epic via machine, am I supposed to be able to see a film as I am applying it? I mean, they state your only supposed to use a tablespoon for the whole car, and I`m having a hard time telling if the wax is actually going onto the paint.

When I first start on a panel, I use a Black CCS at a speed of 1-2. When it first starts spreading, you can see the product, but after a few seconds, I can`t tell if the product is actually spreading.

Am I using too little? Too much? Am I supposed to be able to see a film on the paint as I am applying it? Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I`m trying to get a good couple coats on before the temps drop and I don`t have the opportunity.

Thanks in advance.

**JBSpeed** · 10-15-2007, 01:48 PM

YouTube - Waxing your car with Pinnacle Souveran

If you fast forward to about 6 minutes into this video, you`ll see what I mean. As he is spreading the liquid wax, it is highly visible as he is making passes with the machine.

Now whenever I try this, the after about 5 seconds, you can no longer see the film on the paint, its like the pad is eating the product, and not allowing it to get to the paint surface.

Anyone have any ideas what I`m doing wrong?

**2KLS1** · 10-15-2007, 03:02 PM

I tried using the PC to apply Epic once and didn`t like it. It does seem like the pad soaks up some product and you end up using too much. Just get some of those yellow foam applicators and do it by hand. Just remember you still have to apply it thin, but at least you`ll have more control over that if you do it by hand.

**SVR** · 10-15-2007, 10:19 PM

I`d like you to add a review of cut, finish and amigo for us mate.

Prima is a line I`ve not completely gone through, hydro`s so great that I bought a case of it

You should really like swirl, it`s my go to 1500 grit light compound when menzerna doesn`t work (scratch removal) on a car. it really deep cleans the clearcoat.

**2KLS1** · 10-16-2007, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by SVR

I`d like you to add a review of cut, finish and amigo for us mate.

Prima is a line I`ve not completely gone through, hydro`s so great that I bought a case of it

You should really like swirl, it`s my go to 1500 grit light compound when menzerna doesn`t work (scratch removal) on a car. it really deep cleans the clearcoat.

You know Swirl has really gotten my attention. From what little I`ve been able to find and read on this product, it really seems to be pad dependent making it very versatile. I wish I had picked some up when I purchased Epic, Hydro and Mystic. Maybe when I run out of Menzerna. Does it really remove 1500 grit scratches? It makes you wonder how aggressive Cut is.

**Paulie Walnuts** · 10-16-2007, 02:49 AM

How bad does cut dust?

**JBSpeed** · 10-16-2007, 03:31 AM

Although I haven`t been into this whole detailing scene for long, I can vouch for Swirl.

With an Orange Pad and the UDM, it made history of the swirls on my car. I finished it off with another pass of swirl using a White CCS, which seems to really bring back the luster.

I haven`t done the whole car yet, the weather has been temperamental lately, but as soon as I get a stretch of a few nice days, I`ll try and get some pictures and product impressions up.

**SVR** · 10-17-2007, 02:22 AM

Yes it really kicks butt with 1500 marks and you can use anything from wool to white polishing pad and get a great result

Initially I was leave holograms with it but thanks to dave kg and others here and at DW, I can get it flawless with orange pad.

What I noticed was that it will change the shade of the paint on occasion

From light tomato sauce red to candy apple and maroon. it really improves richness of the paint colour.

**maesal** · 10-17-2007, 02:41 AM

I`m very tempted with Prima line...

What about Prima Cut?

**coscooper** · 10-17-2007, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by JBSpeed

YouTube - Waxing your car with Pinnacle Souveran

If you fast forward to about 6 minutes into this video, you`ll see what I mean. As he is spreading the liquid wax, it is highly visible as he is making passes with the machine.

Now whenever I try this, the after about 5 seconds, you can no longer see the film on the paint, its like the pad is eating the product, and not allowing it to get to the paint surface.

Anyone have any ideas what I`m doing wrong?

JBspeed - I`ve applied quit a bit of Epic with PC on 2 and white pads both 6" and 4". First panel, pad absorbs a little, but after that, I get great results with nice even film. But, I don`t go back and forth over and over. Start with one corner of pane and work way down/out. I usually start with 4 dots on pad, then after the pad has absorbed the wax (you can see about 1/4" of it discolor white pad, just put a dot or two for next panels. Have applied on Red Porsche, Red Lotus, Several Black cars (Merc/BMW) and a few silver cars. All same results. I like using the PC WAY better than by hand. I actually think it goes on thinner and more evenly. I see finger and palm marks when I do it by hand.

Cut - BTW is almost like wet sanding (well, not quit), but without the complexity and it`s a bit safer. Should only be used on heavily scratched paint. It`s very "gritty". I`ve used Cut on a number of "Project" Cars, like my wifes badly swirled and heavily scratched Infiniti and a 10 year old Horribly swirled, bumped, scraped, egged and just plain terrible shaped Audi A6. Gets 80 to 90% of deep swirls and scratches that don`t hit the primer. However, measure paint first to insure it`s not worn thin. Cut is very dusty, so tape off and cover up.

Also, one cool thing about Prima polishes are, they can be mixed. I`ve used a 1 dot cut and a dot or two of swirl for panels with "concerns". Cut kind of makes swirl more aggressive.

Glad to see people finding Prima line. They`re awesome on any finish of car. Extremely easy to use and down right worth the money.

**JBSpeed** · 10-18-2007, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by coscooper

Cut is very dusty, so tape off and cover up.

That`s an understatement...I decided to try out cleaning up the trunklid of my old Neon...when I was done with Cut, the back of my car looked like the Sahara desert, but it did take the heavy oxidation and swirls out of the paint

Mind you, this is a 8 year old car, never had been waxed, loads of automated car washes. It is in every sense of the word, a beater. So what better of a test bed to see the power of the Prima products.

First I washed and clayed the surface. Then I did two passes of Cut with a Yellow CCS to take out the big stuff. Then switched to an Orange CCS and Swirl. Then finished it all up with Amigo on an Orange CCS. My neighbour stopped by to see what I was up to. I told him I`m just getting testing this stuff out on the trunk lid. He looked at the gloss and how smooth the finish was and asked me, "What kind of wax you got on there?". To which I replied, "None" :2thumbs:

The front fender however is so badly swirled, I think wetsanding will be the only way to get her back to perfection. However, not having a rotary I`m limited in that regard. However, I`ll take some before pictures and afters showing how much a difference the UDM and Prima polishes make. I`ll try and get them up by the weekend as its supposed to rain the next two days, but the weather should clear by Saturday.

**maesal** · 10-18-2007, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by JBSpeed

That`s an understatement...I decided to try out cleaning up the trunklid of my old Neon...when I was done with Cut, the back of my car looked like the Sahara desert, but it did take the heavy oxidation and swirls out of the paint

Mind you, this is a 8 year old car, never had been waxed, loads of automated car washes. It is in every sense of the word, a beater. So what better of a test bed to see the power of the Prima products.

First I washed and clayed the surface. Then I did two passes of Cut with a Yellow CCS to take out the big stuff. Then switched to an Orange CCS and Swirl. Then finished it all up with Amigo on an Orange CCS. My neighbour stopped by to see what I was up to. I told him I`m just getting testing this stuff out on the trunk lid. He looked at the gloss and how smooth the finish was and asked me, "What kind of wax you got on there?". To which I replied, "None" :2thumbs:

The front fender however is so badly swirled, I think wetsanding will be the only way to get her back to perfection. However, not having a rotary I`m limited in that regard. However, I`ll take some before pictures and afters showing how much a difference the UDM and Prima polishes make. I`ll try and get them up by the weekend as its supposed to rain the next two days, but the weather should clear by Saturday.

Are you working via PC or via rotary?

**JBSpeed** · 10-18-2007, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by maesal

Are you working via PC or via rotary?

UDM...then again, the temperature outside was quite warm, so that could have had a lot to do with the amount of dust. But regardless, the product worked great, it took what was a paint finish that was starting to look matte from the amount of scratches and oxidization, and brought it back. The Swirl cleaned up some of the roughness after using Cut, then Amigo was just like icing on the cake

**maesal** · 10-18-2007, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by JBSpeed

UDM...then again, the temperature outside was quite warm, so that could have had a lot to do with the amount of dust. But regardless, the product worked great, it took what was a paint finish that was starting to look matte from the amount of scratches and oxidization, and brought it back. The Swirl cleaned up some of the roughness after using Cut, then Amigo was just like icing on the cake

Thanks :up

Maybe I`ll try Prima Cut.

**JBSpeed** · 10-21-2007, 01:00 AM

Well, here is my test bed. Its a 1999 Neon, and in every sense of the word, a beater. Its dented, its scratched, its been sitting in the yard for about a year now. Cats have clawed their way up the side, garden tools have been rested on it. It is in rough, rough shape.

So I figure if I`m going to test out the abilities of these products, why not start there. Sure beats going to the junkyard to buy just a panel or something. I`ve got a whole car to experiment on

So here is the before picture of the trunklid. Forgive the quality of the shots, its a 5MP point-and-shoot, and it really sucks at capturing the swirls. Needless to say, this hood was so scratched, so chalky, that I figured it never be glossy again. Here is what the camera captured of the swirls, and again, the swirls looked about three times as bad in person.

And here are the afters. Again, most of the defects were removed, save the scratches that damn near go to the primer.

Process was as follows:

Quick wash of trunklid using Meguair`s Gold Class with Grout Sponge.

Claying of surface using Meguiars Clay Bar

2 passes of Cut w/ Yellow CCS

1 pass of Swirl w/ Orange CCS

1 pass of Swirl w/ White CCS

1 pass of Amigo w/ White CCS

Mind you the rest of the car is still filthy, but I`m working on getting it cleaned up, plus I`m trying different pad/polish combos on the rest of the car to see what works best. There isn`t much info on the Prima line of polishes out there so I`m just making it up as I go

Hopefully I`ll get more pictures up later.