Flex XC 3401 VRG

**WK446** · 10-02-2007, 08:33 PM

No rental required. You have lifetime privileges... :2thumbs:

Originally Posted by RayMan

So purdy. Can I rent that thing from you?

**toml** · 10-03-2007, 06:46 PM

I see that the placard gives RPMs at the various settings. Does the manual provide the respective OPMs?

Also, is there any sort of caution in the manual against using the Flex on low speeds for a long time? The Makita BO6040 has one (something about overloading the motor).

**WK446** · 10-04-2007, 10:18 AM

toml: No, the manual does not indicate OPM. There is no warnings against using the Flex at low speeds for a long time. The Flex does have protection to reduce speed if it suffers from overheating though.

Originally Posted by toml

I see that the placard gives RPMs at the various settings. Does the manual provide the respective OPMs?

Also, is there any sort of caution in the manual against using the Flex on low speeds for a long time? The Makita BO6040 has one (something about overloading the motor).

**PolishAndWax** · 10-11-2007, 09:28 PM

Hi guys

I wanted to drag over some posts from me that were in another thread that really belong here. Sorry if this ends up being double-reading for y`all.

Also note that I just bought a Bosch 1250DEVS and am in the process of evaluating it.

Just got back from the demo at my buddy`s shop.

Disclaimer: I am not a `professional` with years of experience and I have never used anything other than a rotary. I`ve never even used the Festool that we`re using as a comparison. So, you may take my input with a grain of salt. However, I do very nice work.

I did a few areas on my vehicle with the Flex that were already excellent, but had some stray scratches (only seen in direct sunlight). I also hit a few areas that had deeper scratches.

Having nothing to compare it to, I guess I was impressed with (a) how well it did on the deeper scratches (I figured that it would be super-slow compared to a rotary) and (b) how quickly and easily it took me to perfect. I can get near-perfect with a rotary, but sometimes it takes me a few passes to remove the scratch pattern left by a foam pad and I usually have to make my last pass with very light pressure. With the Flex, I leaned on that thing and every pass left the paint perfect, even if I didn`t have the pad perfectly level. Oh and this was in direct sunlight, too, so the paint was maybe a little softer than it would be under optimal conditions. In all, a very effective tool for how forgiving it is.

I ran it mostly on speed 4. Speed 6 (the highest), seemed to work OK but it just felt too fast, so I spent most of my time on speed 4.

In short, my buddy who`s been painting and polishing show cars for over 30 years said `I think I like it better than the Festool` after trying it on two different vehicles with dark paint. Now that was only with a 45-minute demo, but he`s supposed to get the tool back on Friday to play with over the weekend.

Remember, this guy was in love with the Festool. I was actually a little worried that going into this thing he was going to try to prove that the Festool was better, which is not very objective. However, if he did go in that way, the tool`s performance was impressive enough to turn him around.

The other thing he mentioned was the `feel` was very different than the Festool. One major thing was that the rotation was opposite (I think that was already mentioned in the review). Oh and he tried to `leave a hook`, which apparently is a scratch pattern that is not desirable and happens if you`re not polishing correctly. He can do that with the Festool, but was unable to do it with the Flex.

As far as price goes, if you can get this thing delivered for $300, you are getting a smoking deal. This thing lists for $480. I saw the dealer price sheet and whoever delivers these things to your door is certainly not making a killing at $300!!!

I`ll post more information when my buddy really puts the hammer to it over the weekend.

Hi guys

Not much of an update for you, although my buddy polished the black Jeep that the Flex manufacturer`s rep owns with the Flex on Friday. They were both impressed!

So far, he reports that the Flex tool is `more effective than the Festool, yet more forgiving`.

My buddy is saving his final judgment on the tool until after he`s polished a vehicle with a ceramic clear. He said those are the toughest finishes to work with and if this tool does as well or better than the Festool, he`ll be sold.

When he`s done that, I`ll post an update. Also, he`ll be lending me the tool to try out on a few vehicles after the ceramic clear test (not that my input matters that much )

Final update (sorry for the delay).

Again, let me reiterate that I`m not a pro. However, my buddy is. He has been doing custom paint jobs for over 30 years. Very high-end work; like $20,000 (average) for a paint job. He charges around $1000 for a show-car detail which takes about 8-10 hours.

In any case, his final ruling is that he likes the Festool better. The Flex is more effective in that it is more aggressive, but when it comes down to making black paint look perfect, and I mean SHOW CAR QUALITY, he can`t get there with the Flex. However, he can get there with the Festool.

Again, he uses the Festool for basically one purpose. Take a 98 out of 100 finish on a black (or very dark) car and make it a 100. He uses the rotary for everything else. So, although the overlap on the Flex is greater in that in does more of a rotary`s job than the Festool does, if it can`t take him to perfect, it`s not a tool he wants in his arsenal.

Remember, we are talking about black paint in the sun or at night under flourescent lighting. Very subtle difference, but it`s there. And this doesn`t mean the Flex is a bad tool. I think it`s an excellent tool. However, the end result on black paint was inferior to the Festool in every case we tried it on.

Believe me, we both wanted the Flex to work out. There were less rules (Festool will drop you as a distributor if you don`t stick to their rules) and the price point was much better. However, he sells the Festool as a tool to take you to perfect, which the Flex would not do for him.

I appreciate anyone`s feedback on this review (if you want to call it that), but nobody is going to convince me that the Flex will give a better end result in a post. If you think the Flex is the best, then we will have to `agree to disagree`.

If you don`t find yourself needing show-car quality on black or very dark finishes, I think this would be a great tool to use. It certainly blows away a PC or any other non-forced rotation RO tool and it is incredibly safe and easy to use. It does more of a rotary`s job than the Festool, but certainly won`t replace a rotary.

I will stick with my rotary for now. Maybe we`ll try the Makita BO6040 next. I`m still looking for a more cost-effective alternative to the Festool 150 FEQ.

For me, it`s not worth it, but I`m not giving up hope for a cheaper alternative that is as good or better.

It`s all a matter of what kind of business you`re in. If you charge $30,000 for a paint job or $1000 for a show detail, your customer most likely cares about the 2%, which means you do too. That`s not the business I`m in, so I`m keeping my $440 for now.

The Festool is so expensive because the manufacturer controls the price. The Flex`s MSRP is actually higher than the Festool at $480, but they don`t care what you sell them at. You could sell them for $1 over your cost if you wanted. Festool would nuke you if you did that. That`s why you (should) never see them for less than $440 anywhere, unless they`re used or reconditioned. Same thing with the Festool 125; I think it`s fixed price is $360.

**backdoc** · 10-12-2007, 11:16 AM

WK446: Any new news about a comparo to the Metabo? I`m torn between the Metabo and the Flex so I`m anxious to see how they stack up agaist each other in actual use. By "hiatus" do you mean mechanical failure by any chance?

**WK446** · 10-12-2007, 07:07 PM

backdoc: The weather in my area has not been too favorable in the last week and a half, so the Flex has been waiting patiently....

**toml** · 10-22-2007, 12:23 AM

WK ... still no go on using the Flex? You`ve done such a superb job on your review so far, I`ve been looking forward to your thoughts on your actual use of the Flex.

**backdoc** · 10-22-2007, 09:47 AM

Still waiting as well. Torn between the Metabo and the Flex, leaning towards the Metabo for the 4" and 6" edge pad use but still waiting for a "side by side" comparo.

WK466: Any new updates? :waxing:

Weather`s been great here in the NE, looking to get one more big detail in before the NJ winter hits.

**DJ_JonnyV** · 10-22-2007, 11:27 AM

Anybody know what PolishAndWax did to get banned???

**toml** · 10-22-2007, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by DJ_JonnyV

Anybody know what PolishAndWax did to get banned???

Yeah, I saw that he`d been banned when I tried to PM him about further thoughts on the Bosch 1250DEVS that he purchased. Found out that I could not. No idea why he was banned.

**superchargedg** · 10-22-2007, 06:34 PM

Well i will give you my review sorry no pic,s as my camera,s battery,s were dead.This machine has some serious power,i have never had much success breaking down menzerna,s polishes with my pc or my buddies udm(the udm was better though)until i tried this machine.All i can say is.............wow,i tried it on my trunk of my g35 coupe first which was heavilly swired with ip,with just one pass with moderate pressure and then with one pass with 106ff i pulled out into the sun.All i can say is holy sh!t batman what a job it has done.So i proceded to the roof and hood with the same pressure(which was a good amount) and did the same 1 pass of each and i will say i didnt get every imperfection out but got at least 95% out.I havent seen the paint look this awesome in a long time........i still have to get to a few spots that i missed but who cares.

**backdoc** · 10-24-2007, 09:29 AM

Thank you for the review!

Any problems with holograms or feel like it would burn the paint like a regular orbital? Which pads were you using?

**superchargedg** · 10-24-2007, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by backdoc

Thank you for the review!

Any problems with holograms or feel like it would burn the paint like a regular orbital? Which pads were you using?

Absolutley no holograms and i never felt like it would burn the paint...........but you better pay attention to what you are doing as this machine has some serious power.All i have is the ccs pad,s but im gonna try something else out soon as these pads did a good job but they seemed to want to walk a lot.

**DJ_JonnyV** · 10-24-2007, 08:12 PM

Maybe give the Erasure pads from Excel Detail a shot. I really, really like them with the Flex. I had the same issue with CCS pads when i tried them out this past weekend. The pads from Detailer`s Paradise also seem to work well. After I was done polishing, I was doing a final inspection and noticed some leftover spider webbing. My Erasure pads were all used up, so threw on the Detailer`s Paradise pads and it took care of that no problem. both of them work nice and smooth on the paint. With the CCS pad, I honestly felt like I lost control and really had to muscle up to keep the thing going in the direcction I wanted it to.

**superchargedg** · 10-25-2007, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by DJ_JonnyV

Maybe give the Erasure pads from Excel Detail a shot. I really, really like them with the Flex. I had the same issue with CCS pads when i tried them out this past weekend. The pads from Detailer`s Paradise also seem to work well. After I was done polishing, I was doing a final inspection and noticed some leftover spider webbing. My Erasure pads were all used up, so threw on the Detailer`s Paradise pads and it took care of that no problem. both of them work nice and smooth on the paint. With the CCS pad, I honestly felt like I lost control and really had to muscle up to keep the thing going in the direcction I wanted it to.

That is the same problem,it seems too that i had to muscle up as it was sometimes hard to control.I noticed when on side panels using pressure is when it liked to take you for a ride if you were not ready for it.Im gonna look into some of the different pads out there also.