Time factor: Rotary vs. Forced rotation DA?

**imported_Bence** · 07-09-2006, 07:50 PM

Does anyone know how comparable are the two machines? I am sure that the rotary is quicker but how much...?

I am at the limit of the DA/patience and want to upgrade but I don`t what to buy; a rotary or a forced rotation DA, like the Festool Rotex 150/Makita BO6040...

Experiences or rough estimates?

TIA

**MichaelM** · 07-11-2006, 04:12 PM

IMO a machine like the Festool or dual mode Makita is best suited as a DA machine first with the ability to spot buff more aggressively as a forced rotation machine second. What little scratch removal/correction work I have tried with my BO6040 would take on average 2 or 3 more passes to do the same job, with the same pad/product combo, that a rotary could do with one quick pass. I also think that the rotary is easier to control then a forced rotation DA machine and for those reasons I reach for my rotary when ever I need to do correction work beyond swirl removal.

I don`t know what you use the machines for (personal vs. commercial use) but in my ideal world for personal use I`d have only a dual mode machine and for commercial use I would have a rotary and a dual mode, no PC.

HTH

**imported_Bence** · 07-11-2006, 05:31 PM

Thanks Michael! I`m using the machines as a hobbyist, for 1-2 cars per week. Maybe I keep my DA in duty and buy a little, light rotary like the Rupes LH16EN.

**imported_themightytimmah** · 07-11-2006, 05:43 PM

I`d say the rotary is twice (or more) as fast on really deep marring (anything needing PG, Extreme Cut, etc), and maybe 60% faster with IP on moderate swirls than a PC. I know personally I could never go back to a DA, as a rotary gives me the power to take out serious marring in one pass.

**RAG** · 09-05-2006, 12:14 AM

I`d like to know if the festool, with the forced rotation, leaves micro-marring on black paint like the PC and Cyclo do; I think when a DA changes direction some of the abrasives leave relatively deep gouges in the paint...deep enough that even when worked for a really long time, the micro-marring can`t be completely removed. With the rotary the abrasives don`t have to change direction and kind of roll themselves into oblivion. This, coupled with the "slowness" issue as themightyamah pointed out, will probably keep me from every going back to a DA. However, I`d be interested to know how the festool breaks polishes down and thus how well it works for final finishing on black...especially since I`ll probably have to hire someone soon...and it will surely be a while before this person will be able to finish down on black with a rotary.

**Beason** · 09-05-2006, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by themightytimmah

I`d say the rotary is twice (or more) as fast on really deep marring (anything needing PG, Extreme Cut, etc), and maybe 60% faster with IP on moderate swirls than a PC. I know personally I could never go back to a DA, as a rotary gives me the power to take out serious marring in one pass.

do you find yourself using the DA for lighter polishing though?

**Driven-528e** · 09-05-2006, 06:48 AM

Now that I am proficient at the rotary (after having only used a PC for months), I hardly ever touch the PC. I pull out the rotary even if I am just doing a finishing polish to brighten things up. The PC has been demoted to wax and sealant application. I love the rotary that much! No more shaking, its quieter, quicker, more efficient, and better results, IMO.

Since you already have a PC, I suggest going with a rotary rather than a forced rotation DA. I have the Makita 9227 and its a real work horse. Definitely a well-made machine. Dont go cheap on something so important.

**MichaelM** · 09-05-2006, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by RAG

I`d like to know if the festool, with the forced rotation, leaves micro-marring on black paint like the PC and Cyclo do; I think when a DA changes direction some of the abrasives leave relatively deep gouges in the paint...deep enough that even when worked for a really long time, the micro-marring can`t be completely removed. With the rotary the abrasives don`t have to change direction and kind of roll themselves into oblivion. This, coupled with the "slowness" issue as themightyamah pointed out, will probably keep me from every going back to a DA. However, I`d be interested to know how the festool breaks polishes down and thus how well it works for final finishing on black...especially since I`ll probably have to hire someone soon...and it will surely be a while before this person will be able to finish down on black with a rotary.

I`ve never seen micro marring with a DA style machine, or with the forced rotation stuff either for that matter on any color paint, though, I do not use the forced rotation mode as a finish polishing method.

In my shop everything gets finished down with a DA machine, usually with the more powerful dual mode machine. Mainly this is because of the problem you are thinking about, employees. I learned early on that it was not worth the hassle to try and train every employee that will be working on exteriors the ins and outs of rotary polishing. I usully handle the tough jobs up to the final polishing steps then turn them over to an employee for DA work.

**RAG** · 09-05-2006, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by MichaelM

I`ve never seen micro marring with a DA style machine, or with the forced rotation stuff either for that matter on any color paint, though, I do not use the forced rotation mode as a finish polishing method.

In my shop everything gets finished down with a DA machine, usually with the more powerful dual mode machine. Mainly this is because of the problem you are thinking about, employees. I learned early on that it was not worth the hassle to try and train every employee that will be working on exteriors the ins and outs of rotary polishing. I usully handle the tough jobs up to the final polishing steps then turn them over to an employee for DA work.

On black paint, I`ve never not seen the micromarring...except maybe on a corvette with really hard clear. I guess you just have to know what you`re looking for - Sullybob from this board had never seen it before either...till he came and apprenticed under me and I had him polish with the PC and Cyclo using OP and the haze (micromarring) was very evident (black car) (the surface had already been buffed with FPII via rotary and was glass smooth before we broke out the rotary)...we went to 106FF via PC and the haze became less noticeable.

**RAG** · 09-05-2006, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by themightytimmah

I`d say the rotary is twice (or more) as fast on really deep marring (anything needing PG, Extreme Cut, etc), and maybe 60% faster with IP on moderate swirls than a PC. I know personally I could never go back to a DA, as a rotary gives me the power to take out serious marring in one pass.

At least!

For me, the rotary 4 times as fast for heavy defect removal/compounding, three times as fast for medium duty work, and twice as fast for light swirl removal/final polishing (with the rotary I can move at 6 inches per second and make three passes and accomplish more defect removal than the PC at 1" per second with three passes).

**David Fermani** · 09-06-2006, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by themightytimmah

I`d say the rotary is twice (or more) as fast on really deep marring (anything needing PG, Extreme Cut, etc), and maybe 60% faster with IP on moderate swirls than a PC. I know personally I could never go back to a DA, as a rotary gives me the power to take out serious marring in one pass.

Same with me. I only use a DA for applying wax/sealants. I think alot of people are wasting their time using only a DA to polish paint and remove imperfections. DA`s are more for beginners. If you are serious about detailing buy a rotary. You won`t be disappointed. It`s a must.

**MichaelM** · 09-06-2006, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by RAG

I`d like to know if the festool, with the forced rotation, leaves micro-marring on black paint like the PC and Cyclo do; I think when a DA changes direction some of the abrasives leave relatively deep gouges in the paint...

Originally Posted by RAG

On black paint, I`ve never not seen the micromarring...we went to 106FF via PC and the haze became less noticeable.

I don`t think i`m quite understanding you here. Are you saying that a forced rotation leaves marring or that a DA leaves marring? I think i`m reading a bit of both.