Spider Webs vs. Swirls?

**FreeBIZZ** · 05-31-2006, 04:46 AM

Can anyone explain the difference in appearance and cause between Spider Webs and Swirls?

I have a new red VW GTI that I just detailed with clay, PB PWC-Blue, and PB EX-2 coats, and in bright sunlight I can see some very fine lines, not round circles. Would these be webs? I cannot get them to show in a picture, but I have posted pics at :

http://www.detailcity.org/forums/the...st-detail.html

What is the best way to either mask or remove these fine lines? I have the following products available, and have a PC with ornage, white, black and blue pads.

3M Finesse-It

PB SSR2.5

PB SSR1

Klasse AIO

I really don`t want to order any more prod., but would consider buying something OTC to correct this problem. It`s too bad you can`t see them in the pics.........you can only see them in bright lite up close. At first I thought they were what everone calls swirls, but as I look more, the shape is not a swirl shape, and the lines are super-fine.

Your input/advice is much appreciated.

Thanks

**Accumulator** · 05-31-2006, 08:40 AM

I try to *not* get too caught up in the different terms for marring (which is why I always just say "marring"

). Technically, "swirls" are from machine polishing, though it seems like nobody uses that definition except me and Anthony O.

Anyhow...whatever the name, it`s probably wash/dry-induced marring.

If you`re gonna use products like AIO, which don`t hide flaws, then maybe you oughta try removing the flaws. How to do this is tough to say as I hear all sorts of things about VW paint (It`s very hard! No, it`s very *soft*! :nixweiss ).

Also, I can`t be of much help with the SSR products as I`ve never used them. Gee, really helpful huh? Note that getting a finish absolutely perfect by PC is pretty tough anyhow.

In most cases, I wonder if people oughta worry about fine marring. If there`s a likelihood that it`ll happen again, I question the wisdom of taking off the clear to fix it.

I think hiding them might be a viable option. That car sure looks good as it is. Maybe a glaze/carnauba approach would work for you.

Guess it just depends on what you`ll be satisfied with. On some of our vehicles I can`t stand any marring, I go for absolute perfection. But on most of them I improve the worst of it, hide what I can, and I don`t worry about it.

What I *would* do is work on the wash/dry technique so you don`t instill any *more* marring. If you get to where you don`t ever cause such stuff, *then* it might pay to get it absolutely perfect. FWIW, I`d get a foamgun to help with the washing.

**FreeBIZZ** · 05-31-2006, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

I try to *not* get too caught up in the different terms for marring (which is why I always just say "marring"

). Technically, "swirls" are from machine polishing, though it seems like nobody uses that definition except me and Anthony O.

Anyhow...whatever the name, it`s probably wash/dry-induced marring.

If you`re gonna use products like AIO, which don`t hide flaws, then maybe you oughta try removing the flaws. How to do this is tough to say as I hear all sorts of things about VW paint (It`s very hard! No, it`s very *soft*! :nixweiss ).

Also, I can`t be of much help with the SSR products as I`ve never used them. Gee, really helpful huh? Note that getting a finish absolutely perfect by PC is pretty tough anyhow.

In most cases, I wonder if people oughta worry about fine marring. If there`s a likelihood that it`ll happen again, I question the wisdom of taking off the clear to fix it.

I think hiding them might be a viable option. That car sure looks good as it is. Maybe a glaze/carnauba approach would work for you.

Guess it just depends on what you`ll be satisfied with. On some of our vehicles I can`t stand any marring, I go for absolute perfection. But on most of them I improve the worst of it, hide what I can, and I don`t worry about it.

What I *would* do is work on the wash/dry technique so you don`t instill any *more* marring. If you get to where you don`t ever cause such stuff, *then* it might pay to get it absolutely perfect. FWIW, I`d get a foamgun to help with the washing.

Thanks---now this makes sense to me. I can only see this "marring" on close inspection in brite sunlight. I think I`ll look into the "hiding" arena. As far as a glaze/carnauba-----any suggestions? Would the Natty`s Blue paste I have help in that?

thanks

**Accumulator** · 05-31-2006, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by FreeBIZZ

I think I`ll look into the "hiding" arena. As far as a glaze/carnauba-----any suggestions? Would the Natty`s Blue paste I have help in that?

I haven`t used the Natty`s but I don`t see any reason why it *wouldn`t* work fine.

Some ideas for use before the NB:

I prefer Autoglym`s SRP instead of AIO when there`s marring present. Or just use a glaze like one of the Meg`s "pure polishes" (#3/#5/#7/#81/Deep Crystal Step #2) before you apply the wax. Not sure if the Meg`s stuff would bond OK to the AIO/SRP, never tried that. There are a scad of different glazes on the market these days, but I`ve only used the Meg`s stuff and 3m IHG (which I didn`t like as well).

Oh, some people find 1Z MetallicPolishWax works well for this. I used the WaxPolishSoft with decent results, but IIRC it`s off the market.

The idea is to get something with oils/fillers on there before the LSP, sorta the opposite approach from using AIO before the LSP.

**PelTTing** · 05-31-2006, 11:48 AM

FreeBIZZ - I too bought a new VW recently that came w/ the added bonus of dealer induced marring. Rather than polishing too much of my brand new paint I went the route you are thinking about. I polished using a white LC pad and FPII, then used meg`s #5, and topped that w/ PB natty`s blue. I can still see slight marring if I look hard enough but it is a daily driver and black :hairpull

Having said all of that, my main focus is now being placed on proper wash techniques and high quality towels and mitts. Accumulators foam gun threads have been really helpful in this area.

**Envious Eric** · 06-02-2006, 12:10 AM

or you can do what I do....wash as carefully as possible, wax once a month with a carnuba, every 3 months hit it with some cleaner wax, every 6 months polish, once a year give it the full monte polishing to get rid of most all 99% swirls/scratches and be saitisfied....or worry about it all the time and realize that you cant really do much more to protect your paint besides not wash or drive it....

**FreeBIZZ** · 06-02-2006, 01:05 PM

Well, I went ahead and applied a coat of Natty`s Blue----can`t see the spiders anymore, so I`m happy.

**FreeBIZZ** · 06-02-2006, 02:43 PM

I decided to try a topper to see if it would help with the spiders, after getting advise from the moderator over at the Poorboys forum. I put on a coat of Natty`s Blue carnauba, and I cannot see anymore spiders, even in bright sunlight. I guess it did enough masking to do the job.

Total process so far:

*wash-Poorboys SSS

*clay-Meg`s

*polish-Poorboys PWC

*sealant-PB EX-2 coats

*wax-PB Nattys Blue

Thanks everyone for all the help----A couple quick pics: