thoughts on the "Makita Two Mode Polisher" versus buying separate machines

[imported_thecarguy]

I am looking at getting into detailing part-time but want to do top level work. Toward that end, I am considering buying a rotary buffer. I`ve never used either orbital or rotary - I am a complete newbie to machine polishing. One person advised me to get the Makita Two Mode Polisher since it has both but is priced about the same as buying BOTH a PC 7424 and Dewalt 849.



If you have a rotary do you still need a PC? If so, then it might make sense to get the PC first and play until I can "graduate" to the rotary.



Any insight as to what to buy?

[gtbaka]

I was curious about the makita (still sort of am), but after researching it, I get the impression that it doesn`t quite become a genuine rotary. It still has some `orbit` to it even in circular mode. That may make it a little easier to use, but if that is the case, it won`t be as effective as a rotary in skilled hands.



Now the only reason to get the Makita then would be if it`s DA mode is on par with the PC. Can`t help you there. But Makita is an excellent brand so I would like to assume that it has enough power. Especially if it poses as a rotary on occasion.



"If you have a rotary do you still need a PC?"

The answer is no. The answer is you actually don`t even need a machine. They can still be done by hand, albeit for a loooong time.



However, they can make life easier, and they speed up the process. Therefore, if time is a factor like for most people here, the machines start to become a necessity. If you have customers that desire `hand-polishing` and don`t mind paying you for your time, then that is the only scenario where I see machine-less detailing a viable option.



Now as regards to having a Rotary and whether or not you still need a PC, personally I like having both as I like the versatility it provides. There are some things a PC can do that I wouldn`t do with a rotary. Like applying a sealant or wax. Also, if the paint isn`t so bad, I like the option of just using the PC because I don`t have to tape the car. Taping can take me anywhere from 15 minutes to 45. Maybe more, but I haven`t done anything that big yet. You can also shampoo carpets, clean bedliners and other weird surfaces with the cyclo brushes. Just remember, that there are defects that a rotary will easily wipe out, that will require quite a bit more time with the PC.



Hey if price is a factor, I`d get a PC and the Hitachi. I think that combo comes out cheaper than the 2mode Makita. Buy a hundred bucks! You get a full powered Rotary, and you get the industry standard single padded DA polisher. If price isn`t a factor I recommend my Metabo! Favorite tool in my arsenal!



As far as which to get first? Going from PC to rotary makes a lot of sense. And I`d recommend that route for most people. However, if you are careful you can go the other way as well. If you master the rotary and then pick up a PC, there will be virtually no learning curve, and you will enjoy what the PC can do for `lighter jobs` and for the small things a rotary can`t do.



Anyway, hope this sheds some light in seeing what`s for you and making your decision. Detailing is very rewarding `work.` And for me, and probably almost everybody, it`s the polishing of the paint to a beautiful finish that brings the most satisfaction.

[imported_thecarguy]

If a PC would save you from taping (45minutes) light jobs, I guess the next quesiton is how often do you need your rotary? One place I read a detailer used his PC 95% of the time and the rotary 5%.



Without a rotary you would have to know which stratches you can`t fix with a PC and let the customer know beforehand.



I will probably get the PC first and then go to the Hitachi - 5 year waranty and lower proce, can`t beat that!



Like most people in this forum:

- I want to cure the problem (swirls) instead of hide it with fillers

- I want to apply acrylic sealants without having the swirls I could not get out with a PC being highlighted

- I see little value in a great detailing job if it looses it luster in a few weeks - I wouldn`t pay for it so why should my clients?



Thanks for your insight Don - it was most helpful.

[gtbaka]

If a PC would save you from taping (45minutes) light jobs, I guess the next quesiton is how often do you need your rotary? One place I read a detailer used his PC 95% of the time and the rotary 5%.



This is all a matter of preference. You can still do light polishing with a Rotary. Think of it in terms of where you want to spend your time.



- With a PC I spend more time on the machine and zero time taping.

- With a Rotary, I spend a little more time taping and cleaning up, but a signifactly less amount of time with the Rotary than if I were to use a PC.



For the most part I will use each machine 50/50. If it just so happens that the job isn`t too bad, and taping looks like a nightmare, I`ll reach for the PC. Taping isn`t that bad... I just tend to feel lazy or I simply want to use a machine already.



Now how does the amount of passes for each machine compare? I will do two passes at most with a rotary for each application of product. One pass is one pair of cross hatching motions (Up and down, then side to side). With a PC that number can be at the least, 4 times. Sometimes more. Usually more.



So at the very least, the Rotary will be twice as fast to use than a PC. And easily it could be up to 4 times faster.



Where do you want to spend your time? It`s all a matter of preference.

[imported_thecarguy]

Do you agree with most that a rotary in the hands of a newbie, like me, can be dangerous to paint OR do you think that with a little common sense, most anyone being careful can operate a rotary without much worry?



A follow up question, do you not get close enough with the PC to touch trim or do you use a different product with the PC that is "trim-safe"?

[gtbaka]

Do you agree with most that a rotary in the hands of a newbie, like me, can be dangerous to paint OR do you think that with a little common sense, most anyone being careful can operate a rotary without much worry?



A follow up question, do you not get close enough with the PC to touch trim or do you use a different product with the PC that is "trim-safe"?

It depends. Do you have any prior experience with powertools? The best would be with a rotary sander. If not, then common sense may not be so apparent. A person who has zero experience just does not know how a rotary will behave on the paint.



If this is your scenario, I`d either go with a PC first, or if I went with the Rotary, I`d practice on beater after beater, or junkyard panels/hoods.



Here`s the scary part... you WILL make mistakes with a rotary. Even if you went with the PC first, there still is a learning curve. Even if you don`t make the common mistakes like grinding through to metal, or burning the paint... something is bound to happen. Even if it isn`t your fault. The pad may fly off, what if there`s backing plate failure or spindle failure? What if the machine slips out of your hand by accident? You could be trying to polish the middle of the top of an SUV or van and lose complete leverage or footing. My mistake was trying to fit the rotary between the mirror housing to polish the strip of paint between the windshield and the window. The backing plate started rubbing against the mirror housing and grinded the clear coat, paint, and a good portion of the housing in a matter of one second! Oops! Good thing it was on my beater I was practicing on.



My experience says, there is no way you can approach using a rotary with the idea that you will not make a single mistake. That`s way too much to worry about and it will hinder your usage. The machine shouldn`t be used with a paranoid mindset. The only way you can clear your mind is by gaining the experience and comfort of using it. Make mistakes on your practice sessions and learn from it. It is a lot harder to have people tell you what to look out for and try to do so, than it is to having experienced the actual situation first hand and knowing how that situation felt, looked, sounded, smelled and knowing by second nature how to react to it.

[wannafbody]

I`ve used a medium cutting pad and Optimum Hyper compound with a rotary. That`s a pretty aggressive combo. If you keep the machine moving burning paint really isn`t an issue. If I can do it any person who`s careful can do the same.

[MichaelM]

IMO if you want to do top notch work you NEED to learn how to use a rotary. There is no better way to correct paint issues as far as time and results are concerned.



Hand polishing is great but has it`s limitations as far as results. Also at some point your body will become a limiting factor in the volume and speed of the work you`ll do.



I also feel that having a PC or similar machine, in addition to the rotary, is essential. To be truly "top notch" you`ll need the light touch that a PC provides as a last step polishing tool.



The Makita dual-mode machine is nice. It will do about 85% of what a rotary will do, although it will do it much slower. It can easily replace a PC as it does everything a PC does. It also is much more powerful then a PC which means it won`t bog and has more correction capability then a PC. That said it wouldn`t be on my list of start-up expenses. Like you said you can get a rotary and a PC for about the same price and have more capability then with the dual mode alone.



To be profitable in detailing not only do you have to be extremely good at what you do but also efficient. That means having the right tool for the job. For someone just starting I would get a rotary and a PC, find a product & pad line that you like, get some junk panels from a junk yard and learn how to use the tools. I also wouldn`t take on a job before I knew what I was doing.