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**RCK** · 03-10-2002, 12:44 PM

If it is what are the drawbacks to it if any. I love the shine it gives.

Thanks,

Joe

**JasonC8301** · 03-10-2002, 02:17 PM

Souveran is full of oils and silicones, hence the shine it offers.

The drawbacks are that it does not last very long, but it is so easy to apply and remove. It does not offer the UV protection that a sealant offers. If the conditons are right (temperature, humidity, position of the moons)

carnauba waxes attract more dust than sealants.

But besides those drawbacks, I still love my Souveran.

**MikeLS** · 03-10-2002, 03:21 PM

Jason is absolutely correct. In fact, ALL carnauba formulations are full of oils and/or silicones. This is the only way for them to shine. Carnauba wax is really a yellow dull wax with little durablilty, and it attracts dust/dirt like a magnet. BUT, it`s the oils and silicones in the Souveran or any wax that give the appearance of "depth." Even some polymer formulations that claim to add depth are full of silicone oils. And, that`s what many prefer, the warmer, deeper look, which is fine if that`s what you`re after. P21S, Zymol, you name it, they`re ALL full of different blends of oils and silicones. Zymol is one of the worst IMHO. This is some of the ingredients of one of their upper end waxes: Contains White Carnauba Sap/Wax, Montan Evergreen Oil, Sunflower Oil, Cantaloupe Oil, Coconut Oil, Honeydew Extract, Propolis (derived from Bees), Cetyl Esters, Cetyl Cocoamide (derived from coconut oil). Does a car need all these oils? You be the judge?

**RCK** · 03-10-2002, 03:25 PM

Mike , mine must cuz my finish looks fabulous

Joe

**old_gonzo** · 03-10-2002, 03:25 PM

CRUZMISL -

I saw the photos of your car after the use of Souveran, that you posted on the Corvette Forum. The car looks absolutely beautiful. I had never seen Souveran on a yellow finish before and it looks awesome. Thanks for sharing those photos.

I use Souveran on my Corvette as well. I don`t know how you use your car (daily driver vs. weekend cruiser) but that will play a part in determining longevity of that great finish.

As you noted, it is extremely easy to work with, just a bit expensive. On the subject of "good" vs. "bad" silicones that may be found in Souveran - hopefully someone that knows for sure can chime in. Oils are definitely present, as they are required to make the carnauba usuable.

I have yet to find an equal to Souveran. I had used Blitz for a period of time, but it is second to the Souveran in several areas. Hope you continue to enjoy that Souveran shine.

**Redcar GUY** · 03-10-2002, 06:51 PM

Take it easy guys, just answer his question

Use what u like dont bash others

**Redcar GUY** · 03-10-2002, 06:58 PM

Strike 2

**imported_doug** · 03-10-2002, 07:23 PM

I think the dust thing is a myth. I`ve tried polymer and carnauba side by side, and let them get dusty naturally - there was NO difference, and the same amount stiuck/blew off both sides when I drove the car.

**jkochis** · 03-10-2002, 07:37 PM

Well I can beat all of you with a bottle of 3M Imperial Hand Glaze. Or for even shorter durability a can of Crisco. For quicker application try Pledge. My point? None really, anyone can get a decent greasy shine, it just depends on your intended results and objectives.

If you`re happy with your system, so be it.

**imported_BretFraz** · 03-10-2002, 07:58 PM

I get 3-4 month of protection from Souveran. I would imagine a product with a higher carnauba content would protect even longer.

**RCK** · 03-10-2002, 08:04 PM

Hmmm, this thread was not intended as a Zaino vs. Pinnacle debate.

Everyone has a choice and that`s why there are hundreds of "waxes" on the market. "Heck" I know some who are happy with Turtle Wax.....

Joe

**MikeLS** · 03-10-2002, 08:26 PM

I agree, this is NOT a Zaino vs Pinnacle debate, it never was. Both of these products are the top of the line in their class and intended purpose. I started out merely stating facts that apply to ALL carnaubas and Souveran. I`m sorry if others took it to mean I was pushing Zaino over any carnauba, which was not the case at any point in time. I wasn`t making any value judgement, meaning you shouldn`t use carnauba or Souveran based on those facts. I know a lot of people prefer that look, and I said it`s fine with me. Use whatever you want....

It was also later stated that I will never acheive the "wet deep look" of carnauba. OK, so maybe I, and others, don`t want that look..... And, I happen to believe I have a VERY wet and deep finish FWIW.

:xyxthumbs

**Lone Wolf** · 03-10-2002, 08:47 PM

I didn`t take your post to be pushing Z Mike....Actually I am trying to evaluate both the Z look and the Carnuba look..Not sure yet which one I prefer...The Z (or any sealant) look is new to me so Im not sure yet...

JS · 03-10-2002, 10:39 PM

A lot of these product arguments are just silly: most of the waxes and sealants discussed on this board are high quality products, and have advantages and drawbacks--and the drawbacks are usually overstated by the respective "opposing camps".

For example, I`ve never noticed that all "carnauba waxes" attract dust/dirt like a magnet: I`ve used both "sealants" and "waxes" and never noticed a difference in dust attraction.

"Yellow dull wax"? My car certainly hasn`t looked yellow or dull after using a carnauba wax; then again it hasn`t looked pink after using a polymer either!

"Decent greasy shine?" Cmon, my car has never felt "greasy" after using, say Blitz wax or P21S. Lasts "hours"? I mean cmon.

As far as looks goes, sometimes I like the "polymer look" better than the "carnauba look", sometimes not. Why? Probably depends on the car`s paint, the color of the paint, the mood I`m in, who knows?

As far as silicone oils go, I doubt most of the products used by individuals on this board contain silicone oils--PDMS yes, silicone oils, no.

CRUZMISL: BTW saw your vette on the other thread--looked awesome!!!!

**imported_Intermezzo** · 03-11-2002, 12:32 AM

<blockquote class=`ipsBlockquote` >

<em class=`bbc`>Originally posted by JS [/i]
<strong class=`bbc`>As far as silicone oils go, I doubt most of the products used by individuals on this board contain silicone oils--PDMS yes, silicone oils, no.[/b]</blockquote>
JS, just a thought....but souveran `feels` really oily (almost creamy) when I use it. Wouldn`t a water-based PDMS silicone have trouble mixing with the oils?