Gotta hand it to the President

**Todd@RUPES** · 07-21-2009, 02:03 PM

We are facing more threats an real problems then ever so lets cut funding to the F22...

**imported_Luster** · 07-21-2009, 02:07 PM

Yeah, that`s a balsy move. I happen to disagree with military cuts. By doing things like that we just leave ourselves open to greater attacks and weaken our entire national defense strategy.

**imported_Slik560** · 07-21-2009, 02:15 PM

The only thing that I`d like to hand him is a plane ticket home....permanently. He seems to want to bring this country to it`s knees in front of our enemies. I don`t get it.

**John M.** · 07-21-2009, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by th0001

We are facing more threats an real problems then ever so lets cut funding to the F22...

I was so upset to find this out! I am huge into avaition, probably more so than detailing

and when the F-22 came out I thought it was awesome! Now that they are stopping production idk if I like that or not. Will be interesting to also see how the F-35 fairs.

The thing that ive thought before is that with the way things are going the F-22 and F-35 will be the last surviving manned fighters.

Really a sad thought! I am hopefully going military after I finish college and would like to fly fighters...I want to go AF but with the increasing amount of UAV`s it is easy for me to get one of those, helo, or tanker. So may go Marines (course all of this is another subject for another time

)

The thing I found weird was how they dont want to cut jobs but now all of the people that took care of production of the F-22 are out of jobs.

**imported_User Name** · 07-21-2009, 03:25 PM

Todd,

You know this topic is bound to open a nasty can of worms, right?

I`ll leave my opinion with a simple... I respectfully disagree, as I see this as a part of a greater long term strategy.

**imported_RootsRadical** · 07-21-2009, 04:05 PM

I`m with User Name on this one.

-J

**Todd@RUPES** · 07-21-2009, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by User Name

Todd,

You know this topic is bound to open a nasty can of worms, right?

I`ll leave my opinion with a simple... I respectfully disagree, as I see this as a part of a greater long term strategy.

When have you and I ever agreed on anything (besides Blackfire

)? This section of the forum is for disagreements, which are 100% okay IMO. I would personally love to hear the otherside of the arguement because I don`t see it.

**John M.** · 07-21-2009, 05:11 PM

I agree, I say more F-22`s! And give me one to fly around also

**imported_gewb** · 07-21-2009, 05:32 PM

If it had met the original specifications it would have been a good plane. As is, I agree with the President - stop spending money on it. Unmanned is the future.

GEWB

**Old Pirate** · 07-21-2009, 06:32 PM

He needs more money for his other projects, Maybe?

**Chubby Davis** · 07-21-2009, 06:46 PM

Another 22, 000 kids being sent to Afgannystan.....

Just remember if we fight them over there we won`t have to fight them in downtown Topeka.

**imported_User Name** · 07-21-2009, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by th0001

When have you and I ever agreed on anything (besides Blackfire

)? This section of the forum is for disagreements, which are 100% okay IMO. I would personally love to hear the otherside of the arguement because I don`t see it.

Well, there are a lot of factors (gewb mentions a good one) but I see it more as his view on international politics and the role of diplomacy. This President, maybe more than any other, has an opportunity to extend an olive branches to people and governments around the world that have not typically had a sympathetic view of America.

The immediate thought is the middle east, but I don`t think it ends there (or even begins there). Many scholars, historians, diplomats and former leaders all agree that after the Soviet Union collapsed, the US had a rare opportunity to really embrace Russia and bring them in as true allies and partners. By-in-large most agree that US policy failed in this way and was [in part] responsible for the emergence and success of "nationalistic" type leaders like Putin (for the record I am no fan of nationalism nor patriotism for that matter - I think we can all be proud of our nations without wearing it on our sleeves).

Having said that, moving away from the "military years" of Bush I, Clinton and Bush II *might* serve to make the US a safer place, rather than a less safe place. Is it a guarantee? Of course it isn`t. Might it be folly? Sure it might, but I would posit it would in no way be a greater folly than attacking a sovereign state under false pretense.

The reality is this, America is a democratic nation that elected a leader on a platform of change. As Bush II said after his second election victory, "he gained capital and he planned to use it". The American people gave Obama and overwhelming mandate for change. They will have their opportunity to give him his report card in another 3 1/2 years and if his methods are unsuccesful, they will tell him so by giving him the boot.

However, if he`s right and if he can bring in Russia as a true ally and if he can slow the tide of fundamentalism in the Islamic world, he can reduce the need for the American military machine and in turn, direct those dollars to much more important places, like healthcare and education. The reality is, if Obama is able to bring the change he so desires, America will look a whole lot different. Some automatically *assume* that means worse without contemplating the possibility that it might look better.

I`m honest enough to say "I don`t know how it will all turn out" but I feel like Obama might be one of the smartest guys to ever sit in the White House and that if he can convince his own party to have the backbone to really bring change, he might make America even better than it already is.

**imported_broker99** · 07-21-2009, 09:28 PM

Sad how we can spend a trillion dollars on a PORK filled stimulus package that did not nothing. Cutting defense is an area that I feel should never never have cuts. I am very afraid of some of the things this president and congress are doing.

**John M.** · 07-21-2009, 10:48 PM

Honestly, if they really want to stop the F-22 production they need to work on the F-35 joint strike fighter! Another great plane coming out and versions for all branches. Gonna be a great little plane when it goes into service! Of course with all the new ones we cant forget planes like the loyal F-15, never shot down in combat!

I understand the whole UAV is the new thing. But I hate the UAV`s, yeah you save some lives and stuff but idk I just really dont like it. Especially for someone like me I would be so pissed to have to fly one of those.

**imported_jking** · 07-22-2009, 02:43 AM

I dont see the need for another fighter what we have are far supeior to any thing we may be facing. The Russians dont have a military budget, the Chinese are busy setting up there Technoligies and industry. The threat we face will not be attacking us with fighter planes. Get the deficit and the economy under control and take care of the things that have been neglected for 8 years, and by the way Obama didnt start sending the troops over to Iraq or Afghanistan he got that dumped in his lap just like the economy. If you think we need to invest that kind of money into fighters then vollunteer to have your taxes raised to pay for it.