Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 32
  1. #16
    dansautodetailing.com Stokdgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NorCal.. Avatar = Swan Lake, Hallstatt, Austria
    Posts
    5,190
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: (Home) Water Heater Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy View Post
    Oddly enough, my water heater just started seeping last night (or at least last night is when it got high enough in the base to come out somewhere). These kinds of things always happen to me on weekends or holidays, that guy Murphy.



    I`ve thought about this many times, how everyone has gone from solid copper tubing to flex lines for sink/toilet connectors, and what`s going to happen to them in 20+ years, vs. a small diameter copper tubing that can easily go 50-60 years. Not to mention the rubber gaskets in the ends of the flex lines take a set and you have to tighten them...you just can`t beat metal-to-metal for some things.
    Setec Astronomy -- Sorry to hear about your plumbing issue... And on a weekend..

    I have read about a lot of pex lines with fittings that eventually cut the pex line because the type of plastic they were/are using is of course always wanting to return to its -original- shape. So, it keeps pushing against the fitting and over years, apparently, the plastic will cut and start leaking..

    Evidence of this is in my current neighborhood.. The oldest houses were built in 2004 and ALL of them, thousands, were all Pex lines..

    Many of my neighbors have had failures; the worst were when they were gone for a few weeks, and for example the bathroom lines started leaking in the ceiling, and eventually, soaked the drywall enough that it fell through to the floor and the rest of water just kept leaking until they came home 4 weeks later..

    Some of my neighbors had small leaks showing at for example, the exhaust fan in the laundry room, and it has always been a Pex line where it is connected to a fitting..

    I have been lucky so far.. And hope I will be able to deal with it if/when it happens to me... I think if I had known beforehand these houses were all Pex, I would have not bought one here...

    Seen a few houses, 3 brand new, all with copper plumbing. Some were older with copper... None of them, none of my neighbors around me, no one ever had copper soldered pipes break..

    Yes, everyone likes Pex because it is so much faster to install, it is cheaper I imagine, and perhaps it is even available in larger diameter, etc...
    If they ever solve or have already solved the issue with plastics that want to retain their original shape no matter what, then perhaps it might be a good alternative...

    I just don`t have the decades of time left on the clock to have to deal with another mess like we all did when we were young and fearless in our 20`s, remember???

    Good luck with your research and project !
    Dan F

  2. #17

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    13,225
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: (Home) Water Heater Question

    Yeah, PEX is another one...that as you said, Stokdgs, is all about making it easier to install, and I`ve wondered what is going to go on with that stuff decades later. Not that there isn`t something to be said about having water lines that aren`t subject to corrosion, but I have had several pinhole leaks in copper piping in my basement. I had hoped it was just a few lengths of crappy tubing but the last one was in an elbow (maybe subject to some water hammer). I suppose some day one of them is going to occur in a wall or ceiling. Of course my copper piping was put in when Eisenhower was President. BTW, the other thing they say about PEX is it has better thermal performance on the hot water because of the much lower thermal conductivity vs. copper.
    Likes Stokdgs liked this post

  3. #18

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,975
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: (Home) Water Heater Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy View Post
    Oddly enough, my water heater just started seeping last night (or at least last night is when it got high enough in the base to come out somewhere). These kinds of things always happen to me on weekends or holidays, that guy Murphy..
    Aw gee, sorry to hear that Hope you get by OK until it`s replaced (and that you have a catch-pan under it).

    We`re still dealing with Water issues...currently having the Green Sand filter units redone and one of the softeners rebuilt..man, we haven`t been without soft water for this long since, well...ever. At least it`s not the Garage one so I don`t have to deal with calcium-type waterspots on the vehicles, but OTOH, hard water is murder on my skin, and I could`ve just skipped carwashes for a while.

  4. #19

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    13,225
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: (Home) Water Heater Question

    I hate doing these things on an "emergency" basis, I like to plan it out and replace before failure so I don`t get forced into doing something I don`t want to do for expedience, but I missed on this one, maybe because of the pandemic, but probably I would have missed anyway.
    Likes Oneheadlite, Stokdgs liked this post

  5. #20
    Oneheadlite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Andover, MN
    Posts
    739
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: (Home) Water Heater Question

    Hey Gang

    Setec - Sorry to hear about your water heater going. I hear ya on wanting to do things proactively vs re-actively. Really itching to get mine changed out because I feel like it`s on borrowed time.

    Update on our situation - Ultimately elected to stick with a standard tank style water heater. If I was building a new house I`d consider going tankless, but just don`t think it`s necessary for our house. After looking at different options, I did go with the Water Cop brand shut off valve. Couldn`t find any negative reviews, and had a positive experience when I called them directly. 3 year warranty on the whole valve.

    Water heater wise, I decided to just go through our natural gas company. I`m sure I`m paying a premium to go through them, but am ok with that. They offer a 12 year warranty on the whole thing (parts/labor/etc), which seemed pretty good as far as water heaters go.

    The "fun" part come in when the subcontractor came out to install the water heater. He confirmed my suspicion that the previous water heater was probably installed by the previous homeowner (natural gas line not secured to tank, pressure relief drain too far from the ground - both don`t meet code). He wasn`t happy with something about the exhaust ducting, which started him investigating. Come to find out, the water heater exhaust pipe is too close to the house`s air exchange inlet, thus violating code so he can`t install the new heater. He then proceeded to offer various ways to continue forward, but I put the brakes on as I wanted to educate myself on the situation so I could feel comfortable with whatever ends up taking place.

    I continue to do my own digging, and discover that technically the air exchange inlet placement doesn`t meet code period - it`s too close to both the air exchange outlet and the dryer outlet. On further investigation, the exhaust plumbing for the water heater has date code stamping on it from when the house was built (Not when the previous owner replaced the water heater like the plumber thought), so add another not-built-to-code strike.

    I`ve been in contact with the city inspector, and was slightly confused when I asked him was the standard was for spacing - He replied that building code states that it has to be 10 feet apart, but sometimes the air-exchange manual says that they can be 6 feet apart (mine aren`t that far apart either). If there`s a building code, wouldn`t it need to be done to, well - building code?

    With what I know now, I`ll be contacting the city one more time to get the official what`s-what for all the elements involved so I can be sure the whole thing is done safely and to code. I`m a bit extra sensitive about meeting code after my experience selling the first house I bought - Had the home privately inspected, assumed everything the city required for a home sale had been done before I bought it. Lived in the house for 7 years. Go to put it on the market after not making any changes to the house while I`ve lived in it, but have to have the city inspect it first. No big deal, right? Wrong. I had to do about $1500 worth of work to pass code before the city would let me put it on the market.


    Quote Originally Posted by mobiledynamics View Post
    OHL. How are you. Hope things are well.

    If you haven`t looked at a hybrid, heat pump, that is something to look at depending on RO on the next replacement

    I`ve never heard or seen a heater go kaboom....a slow drip is what occurs.
    Change the anode rod every few year, and inspect how much it`s been wearing down is a good PM schedule

    I don`t read that much into water shutoffs. I do have water sensors in the pans, in the sump pit proximity and I will get a alert if a water sensor goes off. But auto shut off is similar-akin, to are you going to close the shut off valve to your laundry washer (due to a SS braided hose that has a rubber hose inside, or the shutoff to the fridge, or just flipping the breaker every time you leave the house) sorta mentality
    Glad you haven`t had anyone with a catastrophic failure. As mentioned above, I`ll definitely be doing routine maintenance on the new water heater, including inspecting the anode rod. Ironically, I`m pro auto-shutoff and anti water alarm. I can`t imagine a situation where I`d rather have a speaker make a racket which I have to respond to (hopefully home when it happens) versus the water supply cutting off in response to a leak (an alarm does sound when that happens, but action has been taken as well).

    Funny you mention shutting the water valves off for the washing machine - my wife was in that habit with her last house, and her parents as well - they had a not-currently-in-use washing machine malfunction cause damage at the house she grew up in. We`d do it at our current house if the shut off valves weren`t in a terrible location.


    Accumulator - On top of the Water cop at the main valve in the basement, I`m looking at adding smart shut-offs at the dishwasher, washing machine, and refrigerator water dispenser to prevent just that kind of headache you`re referring to. I get that`s what homeowner`s insurance is for, but now you`ve got to bring people into your home and hope they do the caliber work you want. Apparently you can also get a discount on your insurance when you have them installed.

  6. #21

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,273
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: (Home) Water Heater Question

    Just a tip....even though a impact makes removing the anode rod a breeze When new and tank is empty, take the rod out and put some PTFE goop on it to make it easier to service down the road. If it comes with a plastic drain bib, change it to metal. Or just don`t buy a tank bib, put a 3/4 short nipple and a regular ball shut off valve. Easy peasy drains as well



    Re: auto shutoff and what not....
    After Sandy....I`ve got 1 gas trash pump, 2 sump pumps, 2 low level (up to 1/2 or 1/4") surface pumps and 300 feet of 3" Hose.
    Life has it`s ways of making us change out POV after a crazy event...
    Likes Oneheadlite liked this post

  7. #22

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,975
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: (Home) Water Heater Question

    Oneheadlight- Oh man, you`re really getting your share of grief on this, huh?!? Hope it starts going better.

    Yes indeed, having shutoffs on the washer/etc. is very, very smart. Heh heh, that`s one thing our builder`s people got right.

    Your decision to just stick with the conventional style sounds just like how it went with us.

  8. #23
    Oneheadlite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Andover, MN
    Posts
    739
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: (Home) Water Heater Question

    I forgot to add that "just" moving the air exchange inlet 5 feet over is going to require cutting holes into the basement bathroom and bedroom, another other reason the project got put on hold. Even if only changing the exhaust piping for the water heater, that`s gonna be holes in the bathroom ceiling.

    Who loves house stuff?!

  9. #24

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    86,975
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: (Home) Water Heater Question

    Oneheadlite- Gee, is the water heater in the bathroom? I had that in my first house, and when it suffered a catastrophic failure, well...you can guess

    Will they have to cut new penetrations in an exterior wall, or just tie in after going through the ceiling? Either way, I sure sympathize with you! Some things that oughta be *so* simply...just aren`t

  10. #25
    Oneheadlite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Andover, MN
    Posts
    739
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: (Home) Water Heater Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Oneheadlite- Gee, is the water heater in the bathroom? I had that in my first house, and when it suffered a catastrophic failure, well...you can guess

    Will they have to cut new penetrations in an exterior wall, or just tie in after going through the ceiling? Either way, I sure sympathize with you! Some things that oughta be *so* simply...just aren`t
    The water heater is in a utility room with the softener, furnace, and air exchange unit. The exhaust piping that needs to get changed out runs straight over the finished bathroom, and from the plumber`s description will have to have fittings to join pipe lengths together to complete the run out of the house. (Straight horizontal run from the utility room to the exterior wall).

    If we have the air exchange inlet moved, that will require the bedroom ceiling to be cut up for working room to relocate the inlet ducting. That will require a new penetration in the exterior wall for the new "vent" location.

    Thanks for the kind words. It`s just so frustrating when you work hard and want your things to be nice, but you run into it so often where people just don`t care enough to do a quality (or in this case, correct) job.

    I think I`ve vented about this already here, but I see it all to often in car repair - You can clearly see what work other people have done. Yes: they have completed a repair of what was broken, but have taken no extra care to restore the car to it`s original condition. Best way I can put it is that you run into people where they complete the bare minimum of effort to do the agreed upon job, with no focus on doing a good job.

    Same goes for level of service - I`ve seen plenty of receipts from other places that charged more for a job than we would have (we`re a "specialist" shop that focuses on only 2 brands) because they pay no mind to labor savings with jobs that overlap. The other one that drives me insane is when they use clearly inferior parts, yet mark them up beyond Manufacturer Specified Retail Pricing. Yet people`s impression is we`re more expensive than that corner garage because we`re specialists... Sorry - I`ll stop ranting!

    Like I joke to my wife when I see stuff like this with house stuff (or the car repair examples) - This is why I have trust issues! (In regards to letting other people work on our "stuff").

  11. #26
    gorram's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    81
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: (Home) Water Heater Question

    I installed a tankless water heater at the beginning of 2019 and have been generally happy with it. A lot of people call them instant heaters when the should be called endless hot water. Obviously there is a delay to some of the farthest taps that need all the water pushed out. This is the only minor convenience and only a concern if you`re in a hurry during the winter. Mine is electric since it the breaker was just a few feet away from the existing tank system. For the GPM needs and ground water temp I went with a system that required x3 40 amp breakers, YIKES! Despite that I have no doubt seen a drop in my power bill. To be fair, the tank heater was likely overdue on replacement not that it was leaking or had shown signs of failure.

    As for the OP question, I already have a home automation hub and they have water sensors you can add. Come to think of them they`re likely overdue for some fresh batteries.

  12. #27

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    13,225
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: (Home) Water Heater Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneheadlite View Post
    I think I`ve vented about this already here, but I see it all to often in car repair - You can clearly see what work other people have done. Yes: they have completed a repair of what was broken, but have taken no extra care to restore the car to it`s original condition. Best way I can put it is that you run into people where they complete the bare minimum of effort to do the agreed upon job, with no focus on doing a good job.
    The one I always wonder about is the catalyst or other exhaust heat shields, that even the dealers seem all too happy to rip out when they start rattling...seemingly without bothering to think why they were in there in the first place. Which reminds me of a boring story back when I was a kid and there were carburetors and the cardboard gasket between the bottom of the air cleaner and the carb split, and I went to the auto parts store and asked for one and the counter guy said "why would you want to replace that, you don`t need that" to which I replied "then why did they put it in there in the first place?". I was elated some years later when I had to rebuild the carb that the rebuild kit came with that gasket!

    Ok, back to water heaters. Except I can`t seem to upload any photos to the gallery.

  13. #28
    BudgetPlan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    2,662
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: (Home) Water Heater Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneheadlite View Post
    The "fun" part come in when the subcontractor came out to install the water heater. He confirmed my suspicion that the previous water heater was probably installed by the previous homeowner (natural gas line not secured to tank, pressure relief drain too far from the ground - both don`t meet code). He wasn`t happy with something about the exhaust ducting, which started him investigating. Come to find out, the water heater exhaust pipe is too close to the house`s air exchange inlet, thus violating code so he can`t install the new heater. He then proceeded to offer various ways to continue forward, but I put the brakes on as I wanted to educate myself on the situation so I could feel comfortable with whatever ends up taking place.
    Somehow reassuring to know that mine isn`t the only house that ellicits contractor comments like "Well, I`ve never seen it done like *that* before..." when replacing things. (Home) Water Heater Question
    Likes Oneheadlite liked this post

  14. #29
    ShaneB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    South Lyon, MI
    Posts
    1,464
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: (Home) Water Heater Question

    Have you thought about reconsidering a tankless heater? Sounds like you have a ton of work needed to properly vent the current unit. A tankless heater is typically vented with PVC pipe and ran straight out the side the the house (won’t tie into your current vent at all)

    all things considered it may be cheaper to just go with tankless since you’re having to redo all your venting anyway. I would think that when you take into account the cost of the labor (which sounds like a lot) to bring what you have up to code you might be comparable in cost if not cheaper to go tankless

  15. #30

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,273
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: (Home) Water Heater Question

    Tanksless is not a universal answer. Those need more maintenance annually. Gas line large enough or will it need to be upsized from the meter. Circulating pump, etc.

 

 
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Question for those who operate out of their home....
    By 512detail in forum Professional Detailer General Discussion
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 07-18-2016, 11:19 AM
  2. Garage Heater Question
    By pwaug in forum Everything Else
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-25-2015, 12:13 AM
  3. Best whole home water filter system (town water issues)
    By boxingfan30 in forum Washing, Drying, and Claying
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-28-2015, 11:47 AM
  4. Anyone have a gas water heater?
    By imported_RedlineIRL in forum Hot Tub
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-07-2012, 07:23 PM
  5. Cold Winter Water Solution - Bucket Heater. :PICS:
    By deadlock32 in forum Car Detailing
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 01-13-2007, 05:16 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •