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  1. #301

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    Re: 2018 Health and Fitness Thread

    RaydiantDetail- Yeah, I agree, especially about it being all about what works (long-term) for *you* and about how the numbers aren`t the important thing. I`ll admit I just shake my head in amazement at how strong some people are, but that`s them and I`m me...more power to them!

    What`re you thinking about your cardio...shorten the work intervals to what you can do maxed out? You`ve already heard my "it`s all about how hard you go, not how long" opinion a million times...

    Hey, you mentioned Laterals for your shoulders...that`s one of the things on which I`ve made surprisingly good progress recently. Turns out that the deltoids are one of the very few muscle groups that are strongest when stretched (beginning of ROM) and get weaker when contracted through the ROM. Which makes gravity-based dumb bell laterals awfully inefficient (and IME pretty ineffective). Ideally, some machine would have a "reverse version of the Nautilus cam"; Jones got it exactly wrong on deltoids (and hamstrings).

    If I were still using dbs for this, which I might oughta do some time, I`d lie on my side with the db in front of me barely off the floor so the working shoulder would start the movement more stretched, and also so more of the ROM would be directly challenged by the gravitational resistance (when standing, the downward pull isn`t challenging the shoulders much through most of the ROM because the dbs are moving sideways). And I`d repeat the first 20-30% of the movement on each rep to put more stress on the first part of it (where the muscles are stretched/stronger). And I`d stop the ROM before my traps got involved.

  2. #302
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    Re: 2018 Health and Fitness Thread

    Speaking of shoulder exercises... anybody absolutely appalled that people do power cleans for shoulders? Who came up with the horribly misguided idea that they’re a shoulder exercise?
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  3. #303

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    Re: 2018 Health and Fitness Thread

    Heh heh, I don`t even get why people do presses for shoulders! I wasted years on various shoulder presses and standing db laterals

    I always wonder how many people are able to keep doing powerlifting movements indefinitely. None of the powerlifters I`ve known (guys who set records when they were young) have stayed in shape, and one reason they cite is "I just can`t do that stuff anymore..". Similar to how people who jog for hours eventually end up quitting because of chronic injuries and then blame it on "age".

  4. #304
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    Re: 2018 Health and Fitness Thread

    Some of that stuff, the body just wasn’t built for...

    What shoulder movements do you like?
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  5. #305

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    Re: 2018 Health and Fitness Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jrock645 View Post
    Some of that stuff, the body just wasn’t built for...
    Heh heh, IMO you`re a master of understatement with that remark Agree emphatically, only I`d change the "some" to "much". How many people keep doing [stuff we`re thinking of] their whole lives...like, when elderly? Not many, none that I know IRL. But my Father, who didn`t start exercising seriously until very late in life, was still lifting and doing cardio in his late 80s. And it showed, but more importantly he could still *do stuff* right up until two months before he died (when recovery from a heart procedure went sideways).

    What shoulder movements do you like?
    Although I`ll sometimes do some limited-ROM laterals with dbs (like, once in a blue moon), for practical purposes I do all my shoulder work with the cable/pulley setup, i.e., Cable Laterals. In fact, I`ll be doing rear delts after back today, as soon as I log off here..

    All movements are (almost) always done as "1 1/4" ("one and a quarters") where I repeat the first 20-30% of the movement for each rep because of that weird "stronger when stretched at the beginning of the movement" thing. Can`t use the proper weight because it`d be too heavy towards the end of the movement and that`d lead to cheating/etc. and maybe injury. Had to really park my ego at the door when I started doing these!

    Never more than one set of each movement, though I`ll often/usually do drop sets. Every rep is done very strictly with zero jerking/momentum. Definite pauses at each end of the ROM.

    Usually just one or two sets total. Takes a little self-discipline to not do more, but fewer is better for me.

    Basically, I`m just doing variations on strict Cable Laterals, attempting to isolate either the rear or middle delts; I don`t directly work my front ones at all as they get plenty from my Chest work and IMO too much front delt work can make it hard to isolate the pecs; weird neurological patterns take hold resulting in the delts taking over when working chest.

    Posterior Delts:

    Done after Back, alternating Fridays.

    -mostly two-handed Reverse Flies, or at least that`s how I think of them. Arms straight throughout the ROM. If/when I do `em right I can tell I`m targeting the rear heads of the delts and *NOT* the rest of my shoulders or my traps/etc. Typically one set from the low pulley and then one from the high pulley, using a pair of handles connected by a nylon rope.

    -occasionally I`ll do bent-over one-hand laterals using the low pulley, but even bending over, the middle delt does a lot of the work and only very small part of the ROM is working efficiently.


    Medial Delts:

    Done after Chest on the other Fridays.

    - I kneel on the floor in front of low pulley, working arm stretched tightly across the front of my torso at the beginning of the ROM, other arm propping me up. Challenge was figuring out the right position, but then it`s just "do one set of 1 1/4 cable laterals per side without cheating."

    I used to do [every shoulder exercise you can think of]. So-so results IMO but, eh, OK..sure better than the average guy who doesn`t exercise much/right. Then I switched to the above and finally got the delts I`d been after since forever, with just a few sets.

    Whatever movements people do for delts, I`d absolutely emphasize the Rears. Mine get lots of work from how I do Back stuff, but even then I think they oughta be prioritized. I`ve never seen anybody IRL whose rear delts were too big

  6. #306
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    Re: 2018 Health and Fitness Thread

    Ah, I like drop sets but have yet to incorporate them into the program yet. I used to do them a lot, along with a fair amount of super slow negative only work- up to 30 seconds per negative rep. But that was when I had a gym with old school nautilus machines with the foot pedal that made that stuff easy to do. Without it, the only way really is single arm/leg work but I’m leery of putting too much stress on joints with those.
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  7. #307

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    Re: 2018 Health and Fitness Thread

    Negatives are an interesting subject, with studies appearing to contradict each other.

    Slow negatives and "cheat it up"-versions of neg-only work would make me *sore* but didn`t result in much, if any, extra progress. I still do the negative portion of some exercises slowly though.

    Yeah, I agree about how it can be risky, in a few ways. Sorta gets into that risk/reward range where the chance of an injury takes priority for me. No injuries, no wear/tear/damage, period. Can`t do stuff if I`m injured, can`t not do stuff and still have my life work right, so no risky stuff for Yours Truly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator
    ... just one or two sets total. Takes a little self-discipline to not do more...
    Had to have a "note to self" moment yesterday when I thought up a different stance/angle of pull that I want to try on the Cable Laterals.

  8. #308
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    Re: 2018 Health and Fitness Thread

    First workout back today after the mini layoff to rest up. Backed the weight off a bit, about 20% on most exercises. In the hunt for progression- i.e. more weight/reps- form and execution were suffering a bit. Not so much that I looked like most other idiots in the gym lifting well beyond their means, but rep cadence wasn`t as slow and deliberate as it needs to be and I wasn`t able to quite get full ROM on everything. Got back to basics so to speak, today and focused on doing things properly, and doing enough(instead of somehow looking to do more in whatever sense).

    I leave for vacation on Friday. 5 day trip to Mexico. After reading and doing some talking with some guys on a bodybuilding message board of late, I`ve decided to change my my diet after my return from vacation. Gonna start with the 2800 calorie a day intake I`ve been doing lately, but I`ll be eating beef exclusively for my proteins(aside from the supplemental shakes). Primarily grass fed beef. 3 9oz servings each day. Target macros are about 300g protein, 170g carbs, 100g fat each day. I`m going to do this for 2 months and see what happens. I`m going to order grassfed beef online from US wellness meats. Looks like I`ll need about 12lbs a week.
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  9. #309

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    Re: 2018 Health and Fitness Thread

    jrock645- Good for you, realizing that form/ROM/etc. are more important than upping the numbers! Takes some self-discipline, huh?

    What`s the idea behind the all-beef for protein diet? Thermogenesis?

    I do wonder if/how you can metabolize that much protein in so few meals..oughta be convenient though, eating all these small meals of mine is indeed a hassle.

    Anyhoo...it`ll be interesting to see how a couple months of that work for you. Could be just the ticket! Heh heh, I`d be so sick and tired of eating beef that I`d never want any again (Says the guy who ate nothing but beef for his meat for years and years.)

    Heh heh, gee..I shudder to think of what mailorder grassfed beef costs!

    Hope you have a swell time in Mexico, and I like that it`ll presumably be another brief layoff

  10. #310
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    Re: 2018 Health and Fitness Thread

    Actually, the mail order beef isn`t any more expensive than buying from the grocery store, based off the prices I`ve seen. Obviously, there may be gaps in between my shipments, in which case I`ll just buy regular beef from the grocery store. Theres always such limited options on grass fed from the store, so thats whats motivating me to do the mail order.

    As far as the why am I doing this bit goes... Bodybuilders have long held beef in high regard as being a superior protein. Subsequent research over the years has given credence to this. After all, all protein isn`t equal as you get into the amino acid profiles and such. Additionally, the micronutrient breakdown of beef is far superior to that of chicken and such due to naturally occuring creatine, CLA, L-carnitine, etc.

    Talking to a couple guys on this other board, that likely have forgotten more about this stuff than I`ll ever be motivated to wanna know, all are steadfast in this belief and their personal experience backs it up. One is a trainer with multiple clients and they almost always are able to gain more muscle eating less when they`re eating all beef instead of the chicken and egg white approach. I figure it`s worth a try. Interestingly enough, both of these guys made a huge case for going all beef when doing Keto, as relying on white meats will likely leave you without enough nutritional L-carnitine to thrive in keto. I`d been eating a lot of chicken, almost all chicken really, during my last few months on keto. Could explain the stalling.

    I`d like to be able to space my meals a bit better, but I simply do not see enough time in the day to do it. Here is the meal plan I came up with to hit the targets:

    wake up(7am)- 1/2 scoop vitargo w/ creatine before workout
    post workout: 2 scoops protein, 2 scoops oats
    2 hours after workout- 9oz beef, 1 cup rice/quinoa and a couple veggies
    2-3 hours later: 1 scoop protein, 1 scoop oats
    dinner(5/6pm): 9oz beef, 1 cup rice/quinoa and some veggies
    after work(9pm or so): 9oz beef
    Before bed(11:30-12): 1 cup egg whites

    It`s a couple of big meals, with snacks in between. Not ideal, but as we always say, the best plan is the one you can actually execute. This is very similar to how I`m eating now, so I think I can actually stick to this and be consistent with it. We`ll see how it goes.
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  11. #311

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    Re: 2018 Health and Fitness Thread

    jrock645- Ah, OK...thanks for explaining. Yeah, gotta go with what you`ll really do and that`s already quite a meal schedule!

  12. #312
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    Re: 2018 Health and Fitness Thread

    @Accumulator

    What rep range do you usually lift in? I try to go heavy but find anything less than about 10 reps is really hard to execute properly in the HIT lifting style. I prefer 12-15, or even 20ish for legs but dont want to limit myself by just lifting in one range. Thoughts?
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  13. #313

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    Re: 2018 Health and Fitness Thread

    jrock645- Heh heh...[INSERT lecture about posting to Autopia while on vacation ]

    Short Answer: Unless gaining strength is the paramount goal, I see no reason to use lower reps and very heavy weights. And/but I can think of a *lot* of reasons *not* to do that, such as injuries and wear/tear over time. What you`re doing now sounds perfect to me and is basically what I do.

    Typically Long-winded Answer:

    I too have quit doing the lower reps/heavier weight stuff that I did for so long, well....mostly. I might do something like that as the first segment of an extended Drop Set.

    According to what I`ve read, using the heavier/fewer *will* result in greater STRENGTH gains; to lift heavy you have to lift heavy. But that doesn`t always translate into achieving other goals (size/metabolic maintenance/etc.). As long as the rep range is low enough to adequately work the TypeIIB fibers (i.e., max Time Under Load under 2 minutes with reasonably slow rep speed) it`s all good, I`d do whatever works for *you*, which includes what you prefer doing.

    The thing to watch out for is that if you overdo the reps/Time, it will *NOT* adequately train those TypeIIB fibers but will instead work the TypeIIA ones a lot. The result will be that they`ll mimic TypeI fibers: they won`t get bigger/stronger, but they will adapt in their own way, getting more defined, gaining endurance, and doing something that is, for practical purposes, much like the controversial "spot-reduction". This is the result that I *want* for abs/obliques but not for anything else. If you`re only training those TypeIIA you`re *not* doing much for the TypeIIB ones that really count.

    Twenty-rep sets of squats work, have for decades for almost everybody. That`s about as high as I go for anything other than the ab work. I do go up to 30-40 for some ab exercises and 50-60 reps for obliques, though it can sure take a long time to work up to that if I`m doing effective movements.

    BTW, doing high-rep oblique movements relatively often did a *great* job of tightening up the "love handle" areas. My wife would scoff "that`s just loose skin, not fat..don`t worry about it, you look fine", but after a couple years of really hitting my obliques that area has significantly tightened up (no it didn`t just get bigger and "fill out the loose skin"). Spot-reduction isn`t *always* a myth (there was a study confirming that too).

    Hope your vacation is going well, your Dad`s operation must be weighing on your mind...

  14. #314
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    Re: 2018 Health and Fitness Thread

    Ha I even did a quick workout yeaterday... Only 5 sets and itd been 6 days since my last workout. Heading out of town to see my dad when we get back so itll be at least Sunday until I train again. Started the day with a 4.3mile walk in the morning. Sight seeing, enjoying the ocean breeze and fasted cardio all in one shot.
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  15. #315

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    Re: 2018 Health and Fitness Thread

    jrock645- Sounds great, especially that morning walk! On that 5-set workout, it can be kinda fun to do a "just doing something" workout for a change, huh?

    I will, of course, be interested to hear whether this layoff has any effects, good or bad Once again, I put off my cardio for a few days so my legs would recover more and...yep, it was the easiest that particular cardio StairMaster workout has been for ages, carried the last Work Interval all the way through what would`ve usually been the Rest, doing a 3:0 instead of a 2:1.

 

 
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