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  1. #1081

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    Re: The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony O. View Post
    Plenty of people out there that want to take away guns...all guns. They give the model of Australia as examples. Japan also. They state, "See, if it works there it can work here"
    I had to look up what happened in Australia; they DID take away semi-auto weapons from the general public. That`s a pretty extreme move, but remember that Australia is part of the British Commonwealth, which has pretty extreme gun laws (i.e., England). It`s pretty hard to see how something like that could happen here, with our long history of gun rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony O. View Post
    I am all for honest debate, keeping firearms out of hands that should not have them.
    I think reasonable people just want to keep guns out of the hands of people that should not have them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony O. View Post
    I now help a friend, who is a gun instructor, train people in firearm use because just strapping on a gun doesn`t make one a reliable "gun fighter".

    When I am at the gun range I see people all day who need further training or some should not have guns at all.
    So what do you do about that? SHOULD something be done about that (I realize you personally ARE doing something about it)?

  2. #1082

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    Re: The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    Setec Astronomy --
    Of course it did not go well for this individual - too bad.. He chickened out?? Had a health issue? We don`t have any more details...

    I would not hesitate to go in and hopefully have the advantage of quicker on target than a rifle ...

    It is very sad to hear that 3 kids there in the ROTC program died helping get others to safety.. Imagine.. children laying down their lives for their friends...

    Since you keep bringing this up, what would you have done ?
    I honestly don`t know what I would have done.

    However, I think it`s instructive to the debate about arming teachers that a trained LEO didn`t respond in the expected manner--so I`m not sure we should expect lesser-trained individuals to 100% respond in the expected manner...what percentage will it be? What will be done to make sure those teachers are not the people that Anthony observes at the range?

    Surely there are teachers who will be capable. And others that won`t. Do we need to know? We`ve all seen (in today`s video age) LEO`s have to make split-second decisions; some of them have been "right", and some "wrong". I would argue that maybe we need to know more about how a LEO is going to react in those scenarios (through realistic training), others may disagree. Would we need to apply that same type of screening to armed teachers?

    It would be great to read a news story about a shooter coming into a classroom and being neutralized by a teacher, it would be horrible to hear a news story about a student running into a classroom to get away from a shooter being shot by a teacher who "only had a split-second to react".

    The other thing to think about is the confusion caused by having multiple armed civilians (including the shooter) in these situations. Since we here in NJ are not too far away from New York City...we tend to see on the news when undercover police officers are sometimes shot and killed by uniformed patrol officers who come upon a situation with apparently armed civilians and mis-read the situation.

    I think it`s all academic anyway, if we start arming teachers today, the chances that with all the schools in the country, we`re going to find out the result of one of these confrontations in our lifetime is pretty small.
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  3. #1083

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    Re: The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    Mi Hermano Anthony !!!
    How you doing, bud !!!

    Love that DD MK18 SBR !!! OH WOW !!!

    So, So far from that dang 1967 model M16 I had to lug to work every day..
    You Lucky !!!!!
    Dan F

    Hello good sir!

    I am good, just taking it easy and yes, very much enjoying my new toy! Just installed a Scalar works Trijicon RMR red dot/mount and their BUIS. what a great additiion!

    You take care
    Anthony
    "The Art & Science of Auto Detail"
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  4. #1084
    SUPER MODERATOR GearHead_1's Avatar
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    Re: The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stokdgs View Post
    Mi Hermano Anthony !!!
    How you doing, bud !!!

    Love that DD MK18 SBR !!! OH WOW !!!

    So, So far from that dang 1967 model M16 I had to lug to work every day..
    You Lucky !!!!!
    Dan F
    I wish I had that one.
    A society willing to trade liberty for temporary security deserves neither and will lose both
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  5. #1085
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    Re: The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

    https://youtu.be/jAfUI_hETy0

    also Per SCOTUS, LE agencies have no "duty" to protect.
    Google "no duty to protect" . Ironic in this day and age. Times have changed
    Thanks
    Bill G

    1972 Buick GS Stage 1
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  6. #1086

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    Re: The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy View Post
    I had to look up what happened in Australia; they DID take away semi-auto weapons from the general public. That`s a pretty extreme move, but remember that Australia is part of the British Commonwealth, which has pretty extreme gun laws (i.e., England). It`s pretty hard to see how something like that could happen here, with our long history of gun rights.



    I think reasonable people just want to keep guns out of the hands of people that should not have them.



    So what do you do about that? SHOULD something be done about that (I realize you personally ARE doing something about it)?
    Setec,

    Here is what happens, much like, "How do you boil a frog? A little at a time" If anti-gun people came straight up for guns they would be rejected big time. It would be nasty. They know this so what they do is take a little here and a little there. Let`s ban this, let`s limit this, let`s tax that, let`s shame those who support 2A rights.

    We then wake up one day and wonder, "Hey, where did our (insert freedom of choice here) go?" Look at the schools of today, playsets like swings and monkey bars are deemed deadly and banned. Kickball, dodgeball and other games are banned cause it`s been said those games promote "bullying" and favoritism of some kids over others.

    So a tragedy happens, 17 people shot dead in a place where they should feel totally safe. We then parade these kids out in public and they speak of this tragedy. This weekend 10 to 17 people will be shot and/or killed in Chicago. Where is CNN and their town hall meeting at for them? So you see how everyone on the liberal left calls everything "racist", puts out "white privilege" is everywhere yet THEY seem to only care when WHITE kids get shot. So who promotes this kind of crap and peddles it to America in hopes that their liberal left agenda continues to creep along?

    Hypocrisy is evil and blind.

    As for the training? Taking someone and giving them 5 hours of instruction is hardly enough in my eyes to allow them to carry a weapon. There should be more intense requirements on the actual gun handling side. Also, some type of trauma training should be required. If I have to use my firearm on a threat I should be able to also perform first aide while EMS gets there or if, God forbid, I shoot an innocent.

    If people do not train to handle themselves in a crisis situation then no way in hell do I want those people having lethal firepower in their hands. Here is a scenario...you are a legal CC person. You get out of your car and walk towards a store. Suddenly you hear gunfire and to your left a man comes out of the store aiming a gun, not in your direction though. What do you do? Drop and take cover? Draw your weapon and return fire? Your heart is racing, you loose fine motor skills, tunnel vision perhaps. You are experiencing an adrenaline dump.

    Turns out the guy shooting is the shop owner shooting at a robber. Shop owner is stupid. Insurance will replace his stuff. He could hit an innocent or be killed by you because you saw him as a threat. Whatever the outcome, someones life will change in an instant. It`s very difficult to find training like this but it should be more common.

    Anthony
    "The Art & Science of Auto Detail"
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  7. #1087

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    Re: The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

    Lame attack on the media. If 10 to 17 people in Chicago were shot in the same incident, I`m pretty sure that every new organization would cover it. You can`t cover every single death that happens in the country.

    So are you saying that there should be no line drawn anywhere on what type of guns the general public should have access too?

  8. #1088

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    Re: The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony O. View Post
    Hypocrisy is evil and blind.
    I think about this all the time, when there is outrage over deaths (rightfully so, of course), but we ignore other things...like how many tens of thousands of people get killed in traffic accidents a year, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony O. View Post
    If people do not train to handle themselves in a crisis situation then no way in hell do I want those people having lethal firepower in their hands. Here is a scenario...you are a legal CC person. You get out of your car and walk towards a store. Suddenly you hear gunfire and to your left a man comes out of the store aiming a gun, not in your direction though. What do you do? Drop and take cover? Draw your weapon and return fire? Your heart is racing, you loose fine motor skills, tunnel vision perhaps. You are experiencing an adrenaline dump.

    Turns out the guy shooting is the shop owner shooting at a robber. Shop owner is stupid. Insurance will replace his stuff. He could hit an innocent or be killed by you because you saw him as a threat. Whatever the outcome, someones life will change in an instant. It`s very difficult to find training like this but it should be more common.
    I agree 100%...I think we have even come to find that some police departments really don`t have the budget to do enough training.

    But more to your hypothetical situation, in the Gabby Giffords shooting, there was a very earnest young man in the store next door with a CC, he came out and saw some people struggling over a gun, and he considered shooting the person that he thought was the perp, but he hesitated, then one of the other people indicated that the person he thought was the perp was actually a Samaritan, and this young man then helped to subdue the perp. Fortunately for him, he had good sense and hesitated (and the time to hesitate) so he could further evaluate the situation.

    It`s those kind of situations that are very difficult for trained LEO`s, and more difficult for other people. Thank you for your thoughts on this.
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  9. #1089

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    Re: The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DBAILEY View Post
    Lame attack on the media. If 10 to 17 people in Chicago were shot in the same incident, I`m pretty sure that every new organization would cover it. You can`t cover every single death that happens in the country.

    So are you saying that there should be no line drawn anywhere on what type of guns the general public should have access too?
    You are entitled to your opinion. Lame or not, people are being killed in high numbers in the Chicago area for years now but it truly gets little to no attention. In January of 2018, in a 3 day period, 30 people were shot, several killed. Sure it gets a news mention but nothing like we see what happened just the other day. Why?

    I will be blunt. When you talk with many black activists, and yes I have, and I mention the high rate of black on black crime and the destruction of lives in these areas I am deemed a racist or looked down upon because, "that`s a black problem, leave it alone". The white people who do get overly concerned about it do so because they feel guilty being white and all the vast privilege they get from being white. Look what happens to black conservatists who speak out about this, they are labeled "Uncle Tom`s". Does Chicago have gun laws? Is it still a felony to murder someone?

    Now to "types of guns". There are already restrictions on guns now. Fully automatic guns can`t be bought by everyday citizens and why anyone would want a full auto is beyond my rational. You can`t buy any device that launches explosive munitions, again why would you? So while I do not believe I or any other law abiding legal citizen should be declined the legal purchase or trade of legal weapons I also believe and hold to the thought that some firearms are useless, dangerous.

    When I turned 18, in California, I bought my first rifle. A Ruger 10/22 for just under $98. I rode home with it on my bike. As a child in school we could bring toy guns to school and play with them during recess. Gun laws were no where near as tight then as they are now YET you can`t even chew your pop tart into the shape of a gun or even point your finger like a gun without being expelled or arrested in schools today. What`s changed?

    Guns have not changed much. Ruger had the Mini14 and Colt the sp1 way back in the 70`s, both semi-auto rifles and magazine feed. What`s changed is the perception people have about guns.

    Anthony
    "The Art & Science of Auto Detail"
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  10. #1090
    Detailing Gnosis Bunky's Avatar
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    Re: The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony O. View Post
    .... that their liberal left agenda continues to creep along?
    Hypocrisy is evil and blind.
    At what point does discussing gun control become a liberal agenda....waiting periods, background checks, banning a particular weapon? It is not binary. There is a broad range of opinions witjhthe extremes driving the discussion.

    My definition of hypocrisy is promoting claims like "Hilliary is lying" as if they are exposing the truth and then turns around and never mentions all Trump`s lies. Chronic hypocrites just cannot viewed as credible since most everything said has an agenda. You cannot have an honest discussion with them. But sympathetic people like to hear what they want to hear.

    Al
    The Need to Bead

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  11. #1091
    Wax Waster Ronkh's Avatar
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    Re: The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

    We made laws making it illegal to text and drive... How is that working out? Kids are still tragically dying every day because of it. Gun control laws will not affect criminals with malicious intent. Look at the horrible tragedy in Westerville for example. Gun obtained illegally.
    Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It`s good to be da King !!!
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  12. #1092

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    Re: The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronkh View Post
    We made laws making it illegal to text and drive... How is that working out? Kids are still tragically dying every day because of it. Gun control laws will not affect criminals with malicious intent. Look at the horrible tragedy in Westerville for example. Gun obtained illegally.
    That`s kind of a defeatist attitude, isn`t it? We can`t fix anything, so why even try? Makes you wonder why people get chemotherapy, lots of people still die anyway.

  13. #1093
    Wax Waster Ronkh's Avatar
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    Re: The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy View Post
    That`s kind of a defeatist attitude, isn`t it? We can`t fix anything, so why even try? Makes you wonder why people get chemotherapy, lots of people still die anyway.
    And I will..... Thanks for that btw......... It was real low. You now are on my ignore list .Probably a bunch of peoples.

    No, it`s trying to prove a point.
    Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It`s good to be da King !!!
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  14. #1094
    Wax Waster Ronkh's Avatar
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    Re: The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

    Also, what do you think stage 4 is? So yes, it is a death sentence.

    It`s all over inside me. It really is just a matter of time. THe good results, just mean a little more time hopefully, and hopefully more good time.

    I am at a complete loss that you would even say something like that. It shows your true character.
    Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It`s good to be da King !!!
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  15. #1095
    SUPER MODERATOR GearHead_1's Avatar
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    Re: The Unofficial *Official* Politics Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy View Post
    That`s kind of a defeatist attitude, isn`t it? We can`t fix anything, so why even try? Makes you wonder why people get chemotherapy, lots of people still die anyway.
    @Setec Astronomy, Given the circumstances of which you are aware, the last sentence in this post is completely out of line. Utter nonsense. Show a little class or sell it somewhere else. At the very least, you owe Ron an apology.
    A society willing to trade liberty for temporary security deserves neither and will lose both
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