Re: Random thoughts thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Coleroad
that`s why I don`t worry about how much power a car has anymore. I`ll trade power for a great handling, tossable car any day. Great handling I can enjoy immensely at normal speeds. That`s why miatas are so prevalent as track cars. Although they can be boosted pretty good with a fair amount of money, but a lot of them are not.Don`t get me wrong power is fun, but not that fun on the street. I don`t need tickets, wrecks, or heaven forbid kill someone because I was speeding.
So very true. Give me something small, light, tossable, with tight steering, good brakes and around 350~400HP, and I`ll be much happier than behind the wheel of a heavy sled with 1000hp. A Cayman S or GTS would be ideal. Corvette`s a bit big and heavy, but a C7 Stingray or Grand Sport would suit me nicely too. No need for a Z06 or ZR1...heresy, I know.
Just this past weekend McClaren mentioned the weight is the next frontier in car performance since they can easily put out cars with silly amounts of HP and it isn`t much of a challenge any more. BMW is also rumored to be reducing the weight of the next generation M3. Both are going to move focus away from the HP and turn to aero and weight to improve the performance and driving experience of their cars.
Re: Random thoughts thread
Yeah, that old "slow car fast vs. fast car slow" thing.
The "natural speed" for me in our current cars is deep into "impound car, incarcerate driver" territory as it is, and they`re all "slow" by today`s standards.
Desertnate- I agree with you on the recent `vettes, they`re just... *so serious*. I enjoyed my turbo`ed `77 a *LOT* more than my Mallett C5, which did everything sooooo well but just wasn`t much fun.
Oh, and interesting that you chose ~350hp as the low-end of your Fun Scale; my previous Crown Vic made 360rwhp and was perhaps the most fun daily that I`ve ever had. It trounced some truly serious cars when I AutoXed it too.
Re: Random thoughts thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Accumulator
Oh, and interesting that you chose ~350hp as the low-end of your Fun Scale; my previous Crown Vic made 360rwhp and was perhaps the most fun daily that I`ve ever had. It trounced some truly serious cars when I AutoXed it too.
I was really trying to say 350~400 was the sweet spot for HP. Weight and size of the car play a big part. My GTI is 200-ish, and in a car that size it`s quite fun and moves the car nicely, but tuning it to around 250 would make it perfect and 300 would be a total laugh. I`ve driven several cars like a BMW 340 with M Sport, BMW 535, Audi S4, Audi S3 and a Lexus IS350 F Sport which all fall at/above the 300 HP point and were properly quick for their environment. I wouldn`t track the 535 or the IS350, but on the open highway both were well motivated to work through traffic.
Re: Random thoughts thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Desertnate
... I wouldn`t track the 535 or the IS350, but on the open highway both were well motivated to work through traffic.
Heh heh, OTOH...remember that my wife tracked a stock Mercedes S Class and the biggest problem she had was waiting for the guys in "serious sports cars" to grant her the pass (as per the day`s rules, but they kept thinking they could stay ahead of her- wrong). She didn`t even toast her brakes either, unlike Yours Truly, who was driving a "better" AMG`ed version of the same car. I couldn`t have hung with her anyhow, she simply *HAD the Line* and did everything right, while I didn`t...it was an Object Lesson in "It`s Not the Bike".
Re: Random thoughts thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Accumulator
Heh heh, OTOH...remember that my wife tracked a stock Mercedes S Class and the biggest problem she had was waiting for the guys in "serious sports cars" to grant her the pass (as per the day`s rules, but they kept thinking they could stay ahead of her- wrong). She didn`t even toast her brakes either, unlike Yours Truly, who was driving a "better" AMG`ed version of the same car. I couldn`t have hung with her anyhow, she simply *HAD the Line* and did everything right, while I didn`t...it was an Object Lesson in "It`s Not the Bike".
That`s a great story. The fact you guys have tracked huge cars like S classes and autox`d a Town Car, shows a whole different level enthusiasm. I think it`s fantastic.
Maybe it`s my inexperience, or the fact I daily a small hatchback, but I`m not comfortable driving large sedans like a 5 series or even an S class on the hairy edge of their abilities. There is simply too much car to deal with, no matter how well they handle the environment. The IS350 was a good size, but the lethargic transmission and massive weight are a wet blanket on great steering and suspension. Not something I`d want to fight on a track day or autox.
Re: Random thoughts thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Desertnate
..The fact you guys have tracked huge cars like S classes and autox`d a Town Car, shows a whole different level enthusiasm. I think it`s fantastic...
Heh heh, uhm... Crown Vic, not a Town Car ;) Had I done OK in a Town Car that would`ve *really* been something!
And yeah, I hear you on the Big Sedans, when they get away from you you`re just along for the ride. It`s mainly just that I was trained in them, could`ve been the same with the Mustangs we drove at Bondurant had I been smarter back then. Every time I fire up the Crown Vic I mentally switch to "serious driver" mode.
My wife just learns the line, remembers it, and pushes things to her comfort point.. and magically outperforms most people, no testosterone-induced stupidity ;) She`ll admit that she`s rusty on her over-the-road skills though, takes her a few seconds IRL situations.
Re: Random thoughts thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Accumulator
Heh heh, uhm... Crown Vic, not a Town Car ;) Had I done OK in a Town Car that would`ve *really* been something!
And yeah, I hear you on the Big Sedans, when they get away from you you`re just along for the ride. It`s mainly just that I was trained in them, could`ve been the same with the Mustangs we drove at Bondurant had I been smarter back then. Every time I fire up the Crown Vic I mentally switch to "serious driver" mode.
My wife just learns the line, remembers it, and pushes things to her comfort point.. and magically outperforms most people, no testosterone-induced stupidity ;) She`ll admit that she`s rusty on her over-the-road skills though, takes her a few seconds IRL situations.
That`s kinda funny on the wheel base thing. I find the long wheel base cars are easier to drive at the limit than a short wheel base. For me the shorter the wheel base, the faster the driver input needs to happen. It just seems less forgiving to me.
Re: Random thoughts thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Coleroad
That`s kinda funny on the wheel base thing. I find the long wheel base cars are easier to drive at the limit than a short wheel base. For me the shorter the wheel base, the faster the driver input needs to happen. It just seems less forgiving to me.
Interesting observation. I think it somes down to the road/track and what you`re used to driving.
On a tight, twisty backroad a long wheelbase car makes me feel like I`m driving a bus and I find it very difficult because of the slower rotation rates. When I`m in an environment when the turns are more open and sweeping, a longer wheelbase is far more stable and delivers a more planted feel as a shorter wheelbase serves no benifit other than to become disrupted more easily.
Re: Random thoughts thread
Coleroad- Ah, I agree completely! Even though it might not`ve sounded like it.
The diffs between the Crown Vic and the Towncar are related to other stuff. I *could* set up a TC the same way if I changed (a lot) more stuff, but they have "features" I don`t want anyhow on that particular vehicle. It`s kinda shocking just how good even a stock Police Interceptor is...like, "best 1970s sedan ever", which suits me pretty well.
Actually, my wife and I both like the "short-wheelbase versions of big cars", we can`t stand the "L" versions of our A8 (or of the Benzes we used to drive) but we love the shorter versions of the same.
The Tahoe has such a short wheelbase that my trainers (who know how I can handle the same thing in a Suburban) actually warned be about it lest my confidence bite me.
Re: Random thoughts thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Desertnate
Interesting observation. I think it somes down to the road/track and what you`re used to driving..
Yeah, agree completely!
"Horses for courses" on the road/track, and no way I could overstate how important it is for me to get dialed-in under stress in a controlled environment. (Which is a big part of why VDI`s program was perfect for me back when they used Crown Vics.) There`s no way I`ll ever attain the same familiarity with anything compared to the Crown Vics, good thing I like mine!
Re: Random thoughts thread
I prefer driving a small light car, but if I`m going to drive at the limit I think a long wheel base is easier. I have both ends of that, and one in the middle. The jag S-type is similar to the size of your crown Vic. The double wishbone up front helps both the Vic and the jag out. That camber gain it gives really helps that front tires too dig in. The BMW 1 series is that small toss-able car. The camaro is heavy like the jag , but a shorter wheel base.
DesertNate: your correct in tight slower corners that short wheel base helps. Fast sweeping corners are right in that long wheel base`s forte. The long wheel base does help drive off from those tight turns though. So while the entry may be slower,, you can get back into the gas quicker on exit.
Re: Random thoughts thread
Coleroad- Heh heh, park the S type beside a Crown Vic sometime and you`ll rethink that "similar to the size" ;) A pal of mine in the Jag Club has an S type and it`s tiny by comparison! It`s even smaller than the A8/S8, more like my `93. Yeah, actually that`s almost the same size, the `93 Audi V8 and the Jag S (which I always kinda liked).
Yeah, the 1 Series is still small and tossable, much like my e30 M3 was (and yeah I do still miss that for the exact reasons you can imagine).
Today`s Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers, and `vettes are all huge heavy things compared to the original ones. I`d probably like `em if I hadn`t grown up with the old ones.
Smallest, lightest thing I`ve ever had was almost certainly the `81 RX7 my Mother traded to me after remembering why she hadn`t driven a stick for a few decades (no, no..she *could* do it, dbl-clutch and all, but didn`t want to). That`s the car I learned to drive a manual in, at a sorta-advanced age IMO.
Re: Random thoughts thread
Anybody know where I can get rubber underwear? Tired of having to clean up after people scare the crap out of me on the road.
Re: Random thoughts thread
Accumulator: yeah those rx7`s are pretty little. The smallest car I`ve had was the 70 mgb. Darn it they just keep shrinking full size cars.
Re: Random thoughts thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Coleroad
Accumulator: yeah those rx7`s are pretty little. The smallest car I`ve had was the 70 mgb. Darn it they just keep shrinking full size cars.
I thought the Miata was small until my husband brought home a `74 MG Midget. :o