Mike Rowe owns an idiot

[RDKC]

Appreciate you posting this. I like Mike Rowe a lot. He just seems like a down to earth guy. If you`ve never read about his take on college "Work Smart AND Hard" you`re missing out.

I work at a university and the amount of people who graduate with a degree in something useless than wonder why they can`t get a job when they screwed around for four years is astounding. There is a real problem with entitlement this upcoming generation and nobody wants to learn how to do things for themselves.

Do not misinterpret what I am about to say.

I do, for the most part, like Mike Rowe and this has nothing to do with his opinion on anything.

I would like to address your broad generalization with the younger generations being entitled. I also find it quite odd that group generalization was one of the topics Mike "owned" the other gentleman about and, here we are discussing it again.

So, please, tell me how generation Y and after have a problem with entitlement? I don`t want a broad statement with nothing supported, I am talking about something that you can say is true of 51% or more of said generations. So let us start.

Job growth has drastically slowed from previous generations.
- This means that jobs are harder to find, and harder to keep. Ever wonder why a lot of us tend to follow the rules and take less chances at work? Ever think that maybe it`s because it`s so easy to get fired and so hard to find a new job?

We are more inclined to occur a high debt ratio than previous generations.
- Before you get started on how it`s all our fault, let`s look at a few things. First, we`ll go back to the previous topics of jobs. Remember how they`re harder to find? Harder to find jobs means that less of us are working because we can`t find jobs. The unemployment rate steadily declines as the age group goes up. We make about $0.90 to the dollar compared to 1980 too. Yes, it`s a higher dollar amount, but that`s not considering inflation, etc. We also have to deal with higher costs that previous generations didn`t experience. Please, continue reading.

College is strongly encouraged, almost required, and costs more than ever.
- All throughout our lives we are told to go to college to get a good job. It sounds like it makes sense, right? The only problem is that approximately 16% of 25-34 year olds are underemployed. That means that all that college isn`t paying off like they said it would. How many people have you met that were turned down a job for being "overqualified"? I`ve met quite a few. They applied for a lower job to pay the bills but didn`t get it because of that "useless" college degree. You also should take into consideration that not everyone that can`t find a job with a degree has a useless degree. The job field is constantly changing and the demands with it. Certain degrees were also pushed which has caused an excess of qualified personnel, which means they`re not all getting jobs. Oh, and did I mention that college tuition costs have risen 1,120% since they started keeping records in 1978? The average student graduates with about $25,000 in student loan debt after 4 years in school.

Things actually do cost more.
- Before anyone starts, I know that part of this reason is because of inflation. However, that`s not what I am talking about. Medical care costs have increased by over 600 percent since 1978, and food over 240 percent. Houses, fuel, and many other daily requirements for life have also increased drastically more than the inflation rate.

This is already getting longer than originally intended so let`s move on to the next few points.

If we want to retire, we better save.
- Most of the pensions that our parents, grandparents, etc. rely on to live are gone. If we ever hope to retire that`s all coming out of our pockets. I`ve heard it a million times, it`s not a big deal, put it in a 401k and it will grow. Well, the problem with that is that the cost of living is still increasing. We talked about it before. That means that if we save 1,000,000, but the time we retire it may be more like 750,000 or 500,000 (no data to support the numbers, they`re just numbers I picked). Also, with higher debts, lower employment rates, and higher cost of living we have less money to invest into retirement. Rent costs (on a national average) 30% of our income, once you account for other expenses and retirement, our usable income is drastically less than you think. We also pay into social security that we may or may not ever see. The elderly, however, do feel entitled to their benefits. They "earned" it, right? Completely disregarding the fact, given average retirement age and average life expectancy, more is received in benefits than what the average worker pays into entitlement taxes.

Experience is hard to come by.
- Consider everything else in this post and tell me how easy it is to gain job-related experience. I`m not saying that it was ever easy, nor am I saying it is impossible. What I am saying is that the older generations feel they`re entitled to the right opinion because they have experience. I`m not saying that the younger people are always right, but we`re not always wrong either. We grew up during a serious change in the way the world turns. It`s less a problem with entitlement here and more a problem of respect and desire. A lot of the time our input is disregarded because others have more experience and that means they`re entitled to being right.

The world is entirely different, and people don`t seem to grasp that.
- We grew up during a recession. If you`re lucky like me you hit your adulthood during it too. We have constantly adapted and embraced drastic changes in technology. That doesn`t seem like a major ordeal, right? Consider how things are done. I used to pay bills via check and the mail. Now it`s all online. I used to get a paper check, now it`s all direct deposit. I used to go to the bank to deposit/withdraw money, now my bank doesn`t have a local branch. We have dealt with a near collapse of the economy. We still live in a rather poor economy. Point is, all of this adds up to life experiences that nobody seems to consider. Our life experience is entirely different than previous generations which has led to a great divide between the ages.

If this seems like a personal attack, oh well. It`s not intended that way but I will not apologize. The broad generalization that younger people - myself, my friends, my siblings - have a problem with entitlement and all of the other unfounded accusations stroke the wrong nerve. This isn`t all of it either, but hopefully enough to make you rethink your blind accusation.

[Stokdgs]

A lot of really great things are still taught in school but unfortunately, there is a alot of BS passing as "education" there as well..

And sadly, a lot of if is coming from the very people who teach there...
They dress like slobs or very, very, casually, that totally takes them from being the Adult in the room, the Teacher, Professor, the One in Charge, to being "one of the guys/gals/etc"...

This is so far from what I experienced going through school..
You KNEW who the teachers were because they dressed every day like they were going to Church, etc... men - shirt and tie, women - dress, hair, etc., in place..
They were respected for this and everything else that emanated from them..

These people probably made no money for this but they WANTED to bring us up levels so that we would be able to someday make a difference (if we wanted to), in society, in the world..
They taught us all the skills we would need to get through life if nothing else ever became of our personal pursuits to further our education, etc...

There were no teachers unions, no B/S in the middle of these incredible people who sacrificed much but had in their heads and hearts that they happened to love this work, to love us, and wanted, actually wanted, to help others if nothing else, know how to read, write, work math problems well enough to just get through life..

If there is anything I learned just about their efforts for me, this little poor kid with very few clothes to wear, never had a hot lunch in the cafeteria, etc., I learned to be so Grateful for them, and that takes precedence over everything else, softens the heart, brings healing where needed, and covers all the places in a way that makes it all good again..

It is precisely these deep heartfelt feelings that will go further than anything else we could ever have as tangible reminders of things that were hard for us, a people, a country full of people, nations, etc...

I am sure that Mike Rowe gets this and I am so glad for a light, a bright light out there for many to see...
Dan F

[heisenberg]

We are more inclined to occur a high debt ratio than previous generations.
College is strongly encouraged, almost required, and costs more than ever.
If we want to retire, we better save.
The world is entirely different, and people don`t seem to grasp that.

Just so you know, I`m a part of the generation I`m generalizing - I`m 25. You’re incorrectly assuming(at least it looks that way) I’m some out of touch person who doesn’t know what it’s really like out there. I do. It`s firsthand experience and a byproduct of me working in a position where I see people graduating and wondering why they can`t get a job. Right now for next year’s Freshman class, the highest enrolled programs are Film Production, Video Game Design, and Animation. We’re a worldwide, accredited, not for profit top ranked in the country college, and these people are undergoing creative type jobs where there are little opportunities for realworld internships or job prospects in the Midwest; they are taking on debt burdens as you mentioned of 25k or more. They are choosing not to enter practical job fields to chase their dreams and do what they want, which is fine, but that`s their fault and theirs alone - they think that by getting the college degree they are entitled to their dream job, which is what I meant by what I said. Not necessarily entitled(or bratty) in the broad sense of the word. Entitled here has the connotation that they wrongfully assume that taking on a high debt within college somehow affords them whatever job they want just because they put in the time.

I’m not sure what some of your other points were for. It sounded like you were trying to defend how hard life is, which I’m not going to argue with you on. Life’s hard for everyone. The point that particularly stood out to me was the experience thing - experience is not hard to come by if you know where to look or you take it upon yourself. You can always find someone who will take a chance on a good employee. As I was applying for jobs out of college they all asked for the same experience with a coding language I wasn’t familiar with so I taught myself. When they asked me about my experience in interviews I said “A lot of my experience is theory based within the classroom. However, I am proficient in XYZ and have plenty of experience using it, just not in a professional setting. It wouldn’t be a problem for me to adapt.” Boom, hired.

You`re right about how my generalizing is against what Mike was going for in his original point, so I apologize for that. What I meant when I said people don`t want to learn how to do things themselves I was picturing someone I know who is 18 and a few of her friends...they can`t pump their own gas, register for classes, budget, open a bank account, do laundry, pay bills, nothing. It`s just as much of a problem as the society that allows them to survive like this as it is their parents for not raising them to be independent.

I haven’t met everyone in the generation to make the claim that over 51% of them are like this, so I’ll amend what I said to say a good amount of them are and that’s the group that’s going to cause the biggest economical drain on society in the future. Also, I know the world is different than it used to be. My grandpa worked for the same company for 50 years and he paid his way through college working part-time and bought his house in cash after saving a bit when he was working full-time. Try that now. Sorry for the long response – PM me if you want to discuss this a bit more, I don’t get to talk about it all that often but it’s something that I’m pretty passionate about. I don`t take anything you said personal at all. I tend to think I have thicker skin than that.

[BSkip333]

Just a few points on the subject:
I have a college degree I will more than likely never use but I worked while in school and have no debt as I had academic scholarships. I do have a trade (electrician) that I enjoy and work hard at daily. I have never been afraid to go above and beyond the bare minimum or expand my skill set. Because of that I have standing job offers and my employer understands that and gives me guaranteed hours and pay raises without me asking. I was taught work ethic at an early age and will be eternally grateful for that. To say we have different circumstances than other generations is obvious. Take my grandfather for example, he is 84 years old and finds something to work on everyday of his life. I do think some of our younger generations are somewhat spoiled and lack respect, note I said some....perfect example..my office used to ship things to my home, I live 2 houses down from my grandparents. I came home to find my grandfather unloading a pallet of material while the truck driver watched, he was mid 30` so I`d guess. He acted confused that I asked him why he was watching my grandfather and told me it wasn`t his job to unload. He just looked at me blankly when I said it wasn`t about his job, it`s about respect! I have never once watched an elder person struggle to load or unload or do anything for that matter where I didn`t stop and help. The sad part is that it seems to shock them when you do show respect as opposed to ignoring them.

[RDKC]

I`ll publicly post this and then we can move to PM. The main point I fail to see this so called feeling on entitlement not do I see any reason we would be or any reason it would be perceived. Keep in mind there is always an exception. However, I have seen many more people of the older generations that feel entitled than mine. It was nothing about how hard life is or is not, but I have seriously started to detail this topic so I apologize.

Bskip, I`m not saying that it is or is not the case but at some times you can`t help them unload. My company doesn`t and it boils down mostly to liability. If they unload and something else gets damaged then it`s on the shipper.

I don`t tend to help elder people either, because I`ve caught plenty of poor attitudes from those I`m trying to help because of it. If they ask, I will and I may offer, but rarely do I just jump in. Also, that is a feeling of entitlement. I`ll leave the rest out to prevent further derailment. Feel free to PM me if you would like.

[RaysWay]

Good discussion here

[Stokdgs]

I`ll publicly post this and then we can move to PM. The main point I fail to see this so called feeling on entitlement not do I see any reason we would be or any reason it would be perceived. Keep in mind there is always an exception. However, I have seen many more people of the older generations that feel entitled than mine. It was nothing about how hard life is or is not, but I have seriously started to detail this topic so I apologize.

Bskip, I`m not saying that it is or is not the case but at some times you can`t help them unload. My company doesn`t and it boils down mostly to liability. If they unload and something else gets damaged then it`s on the shipper.

I don`t tend to help elder people either, because I`ve caught plenty of poor attitudes from those I`m trying to help because of it. If they ask, I will and I may offer, but rarely do I just jump in. Also, that is a feeling of entitlement. I`ll leave the rest out to prevent further derailment. Feel free to PM me if you would like.

My Friend,

If there would ever be an accurate poll of the "older generation/s" that consider themselves "entitled", it might be amazing to see the huge amount of those that do not feel they are entitled at all, as the worldly, world, would want them/us to feel, so we can become all the things that have a negative effect on us, thereby weakening us even more...

The generation my parents And their parents grew up in had the Depression of 1929 to deal with, and unless I missed something, there has never been anything worse than that for everyone in America..
And they also had 2 world wars to deal with and be participants in...
And somehow, those that survived all of that strived every day, - every day - to do all they could so their children would not have to endure what they endured...

My generation just had the end of the Korean War, the entire Cold War, and Vietnam War to work with, while we were trying to finish growing up at 17 years old, do our patriotic duty for our country, and somehow, get a job, further our Education, get Married, and raise a Family..

And we did all of this without NONE of the amazing technological advances in Communication we have today !

I am not sure where that group of my generation is that feels they are so Entitled that it has come to your attention, but I can assure you there are no, not one, person/s like that that I have ever run across..

As far as helping ANYONE, especially those Elderly, upon whose backs we all stand on today, who were related to the Pioneers, who left their homes in other parts of the world, who lost so many of their own family and children on those lonely trails, to come here to worship freely, and make something of themselves and support their families, I will ALWAYS, ALWAYS, be there and stop to help them...

Lawsuits, BS, be dammed, there is always much more good in the form of Blessings from above that comes to those that stop and help someone in need...
Dan F

[House of Wax]

I can`t help but wonder how much the internet/social media/24 hour news/etc.....skews people`s perception of others/other generations now compared to what their perception would be even 20-30 years ago without all that saturation of "news" (if that makes sense)

[Bunky]

I can`t help but wonder how much the internet/social media/24 hour news/etc.....skews people`s perception of others/other generations now compared to what their perception would be even 20-30 years ago without all that saturation of "news" (if that makes sense)

From my experience (been in the south during the 60`s), these misguided people have always existed. The opinion varied by region. The internet does feed the beast even more to stir up stuff and allows people with opposite opinions to discuss in ways they never did. It used to primarily church and local politics. It has just expanded.

[Swanicyouth]

A lot of really great things are still taught in school but unfortunately, there is a alot of BS passing as "education" there as well..

Lol. This is too funny. I got into a discussion with one of my technicians the other day. Basically, her son is in 3rd grade and has math homework - but she can`t figure it out.

She tells me it`s "new math". Im like: "there is no new math.... math is math". She is about 30 years old and can`t figure out 3rd grade math. This leads me to believe she never learned "math" to begin with.

"New math". Lolz. Where are we going with this?

[RDKC]

My Friend,

If there would ever be an accurate poll of the "older generation/s" that consider themselves "entitled", it might be amazing to see the huge amount of those that do not feel they are entitled at all, as the worldly, world, would want them/us to feel, so we can become all the things that have a negative effect on us, thereby weakening us even more...

The generation my parents And their parents grew up in had the Depression of 1929 to deal with, and unless I missed something, there has never been anything worse than that for everyone in America..
And they also had 2 world wars to deal with and be participants in...
And somehow, those that survived all of that strived every day, - every day - to do all they could so their children would not have to endure what they endured...

My generation just had the end of the Korean War, the entire Cold War, and Vietnam War to work with, while we were trying to finish growing up at 17 years old, do our patriotic duty for our country, and somehow, get a job, further our Education, get Married, and raise a Family..

And we did all of this without NONE of the amazing technological advances in Communication we have today !

I am not sure where that group of my generation is that feels they are so Entitled that it has come to your attention, but I can assure you there are no, not one, person/s like that that I have ever run across..

As far as helping ANYONE, especially those Elderly, upon whose backs we all stand on today, who were related to the Pioneers, who left their homes in other parts of the world, who lost so many of their own family and children on those lonely trails, to come here to worship freely, and make something of themselves and support their families, I will ALWAYS, ALWAYS, be there and stop to help them...

Lawsuits, BS, be dammed, there is always much more good in the form of Blessings from above that comes to those that stop and help someone in need...
Dan F

I don`t jump in and help because I have been scorned for doing so in many cases. Hence why I said I may ask if they need help. Automatically assuming they need help because of their age is just as disrespectful as turning a blind eye.

It all depends on where exactly you are though I suppose. Elders in the Middle East are highly revered and many things can be taken as disrespect. My experience has shown me that, whether it be disrespectful or respectful, asking first never hurts as much as just picking the wrong thing.

[heisenberg]

Lol. This is too funny. I got into a discussion with one of my technicians the other day. Basically, her son is in 3rd grade and has math homework - but she can`t figure it out.

She tells me it`s "new math". Im like: "there is no new math.... math is math". She is about 30 years old and can`t figure out 3rd grade math. This leads me to believe she never learned "math" to begin with.

"New math". Lolz. Where are we going with this?

You laugh, but I have to think she`s at least partially right. Because of district standards and common core plenty of schools have to teach math differently than they did before and if you try to show it to your kid or someone younger they get more confused because the teacher tells them "This is how you do it. Any deviation results in points off." The way is pretty stupid IMO

It`s like anything else where people rely on muscle memory to do things and if you try to ask them to explain the concept or reasoning behind it it`s like "uhhh I mean this is just how I do it?" with not much thought behind it.

Common Core Multiplication Method - Business Insider

[House of Wax]

You laugh, but I have to think she`s at least partially right. Because of district standards and common core plenty of schools have to teach math differently than they did before and if you try to show it to your kid or someone younger they get more confused because the teacher tells them "This is how you do it. Any deviation results in points off." The way is pretty stupid IMO

It`s like anything else where people rely on muscle memory to do things and if you try to ask them to explain the concept or reasoning behind it it`s like "uhhh I mean this is just how I do it?" with not much thought behind it.

Common Core Multiplication Method - Business Insider

Yeah, I`ve see some examples of that garbage and just leaves me scratching my head.

[House of Wax]

Bernie Sanders tweets, “At the end of the day, providing a path to go to college is a helluva lot cheaper than putting people on a path to jail.”

I wonder sometimes, if the best way to question the increasingly dangerous idea that a college education is the best path for the most people, is to stop fighting the sentiment directly, and simply shine a light on the knuckleheads who continue to perpetuate this nonsense. This latest tweet from Bernie Sanders is a prime example. In less than 140 characters, he’s managed to imply that a path to prison is the most likely alternative to a path to college.

Historically, universities have promoted themselves at the expense of many other forms of “alternative education.” The implicit suggestion, reinforced daily by a generation of well-intended guidance counselors and misguided parents, is always the same - get yourself a four-year degree, or accept one of the many “vocational consolation prizes” that result from all other forms of “lesser knowledge.”

It’s a cautionary tale as predictable as it is false. But now, as people are slowly starting to understand the obscenity of 1.3 trillion dollars in student loans, along with the abundance of opportunity for those with the proper training, it seems the proponents of “college for all” need something even more frightening than the prospect of a career in the trades to frighten the next class into signing on the dotted line. According to Senator Sanders, that “something,” is a path to jail.

I try not to be political on this page, because the truth is, arrogance and elitism are alive and well in every corner of every party - especially with respect to this topic. But I have to admit, this is the first time I’ve seen an elected official support the hyper-inflated cost of a diploma by juxtaposing it with the hyper-inflated cost of incarceration. Honestly, I’m not sure what to make of it.

Is it possible that Senator Sanders doesn’t realize the number of college graduates with criminal records? Is he unaware of the millions of successful tradespeople and entrepreneurs who didn’t pay for a sheepskin, but somehow managed to stay of the clink? Does he not recognize that comments like his will encourage more kids who are better suited for an alternative path to borrow vast sums of money they’ll never be able to pay back in order to pay for a degree that won’t get them a job?

Maybe not. Maybe the 140 character limit has doomed him to be misunderstood or taken out of context. Certainly, it’s happened to me. But regardless, the damage is in the headline, and Twitter is nothing but headlines. The truth, in my opinion, is this: There is no alternative for an education, and no hope for a person who doesn’t want to learn something useful and apply it. But there are many, many alternatives to college. And none of them come with a prison sentence.

Anyway, I’m in no position to judge. After all, I’m going LIVE on Facebook at 5pm PT to raise money for Work Ethic Scholarships by singing The Grinch and selling a collectible Bobblehead. eBay.com Item Bid History

So really, what do I know?

Mike

[heisenberg]

Bernie Sanders tweets, “At the end of the day, providing a path to go to college is a helluva lot cheaper than putting people on a path to jail.”

I wonder sometimes, if the best way to question the increasingly dangerous idea that a college education is the best path for the most people, is to stop fighting the sentiment directly, and simply shine a light on the knuckleheads who continue to perpetuate this nonsense. This latest tweet from Bernie Sanders is a prime example. In less than 140 characters, he’s managed to imply that a path to prison is the most likely alternative to a path to college.

I do think you are misinterpreting the sentiment behind that quote. It`s not meant to be a dig at the working class or those who do not attend college. It`s meant to say that for taxpayers, it costs more money to keep someone incarcerated for a certain length of time vs. moving to a public university model which is one of Sanders` main platforms he`s running on.

So it`s more of a "Which would you rather pay for?" since he`s assuming that a populace with an easier means to attend higher education will be less crime ridden, which is something I could probably agree with - just not sure how you get there.

Also, it`s not fair to say "the damage is in the headlines" because we should be a little more discerning of how we get our news and how much we read into it. Taking things out of context and failing to exercise some critical thinking and common sense when other people say things is no good for anyone.