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Thread: Trueisms

  1. #46

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    Re: Trueisms

    Quote Originally Posted by Swanicyouth View Post
    Have you looked at our universities? Technical and professional programs are filled with people born in other lands. These people come here with nothing, but somehow manage to educate themselves and succeed. Good for them.
    That`s been going on for 40 years or more--most of those people do go back to their country of origin after their degree. There has been some talk in congress in recent years of doing things to get more graduates to stay since we Americans don`t seem interested too much in STEM. And why should we be? We think cell phones come from Best Buy, not from Bell Labs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunky View Post
    What you have is a consumer often with no or lower paying job complaining about taxes, low paying jobs, blaming the government, and anyone else they can blame when in fact the consumer was also involved in their own fate.
    That`s a chicken and egg argument--of course the consumer is going to pick the lower priced product (providing everything else is equal). It was the companies who had the choice (at least at the beginning of the trend) to sell out or not.

  2. #47
    Wax Waster Ronkh's Avatar
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    Re: Trueisms

    Quote Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy View Post

    That`s a chicken and egg argument--of course the consumer is going to pick the lower priced product (providing everything else is equal). It was the companies who had the choice (at least at the beginning of the trend) to sell out or not.
    Sell out ????

    More like compete. Wasn`t that long ago that Toyota out sold GM etc. So to me it wasn`t a sell out, it was compete or die.
    Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It`s good to be da King !!!

  3. #48

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    Re: Trueisms

    Quote Originally Posted by mobenzowner View Post
    Corporations, and I will throw in the disclaimer "for the most part" spend, invest, shelter assets for theirs and their stockholders best interest. As long as they do it within the laws established by the government why are they so crucified for making a profit? If corporations get their profits illegally or at the hands of big government thru politicians etc giving immoral government kickbacks of the peoples money then I take exception. Otherwise why should a corporation be condemned and criticized for making and protecting their profits.
    Even noted racist and capitalist Henry Ford realized that if he didn`t "share the wealth" he couldn`t create a large enough market for his product, so he made sure that his employees were well paid. Yesterday`s manufacturing jobs have been replaced by retail jobs that don`t pay well and don`t provide benefits. Sure there is some offset to that in that generally the imported goods cost less so they are more affordable to these "Wal-Mart-class" employees, but now that they make half as much as they would have actually making the items instead of putting them on the shelf, they pay half the taxes, too. But they don`t have health insurance or a pension either, so is it a surprise that the government ultimately gets involved? The CEO`s are okay, though.

    I think part of the problem with this is the "new normal". It didn`t used to be normal to go into a store like Sears and everything in there was made in a foreign country. It didn`t used to be normal for the largest employers in the country to offer no benefits (health care, pension) to most of their employees...or even a full time job for Pete`s sake. It didn`t used to be normal for the CEO to make 250 or 300 times the salary of the average worker. It didn`t used to be normal for a company (like GE) to make $14 billion dollars in profit and pay no taxes (and even get a $3.2 billion refund).

    Al Capone, famous criminal--was ultimately arrested for...tax evasion. I guess if he had 1000 CPA`s and a fleet of lobbyists working for him, maybe he could have created some loopholes in the tax code so instead of going to jail, he could have gotten a refund.

    Those who don`t learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them...or something like that.

  4. #49
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    Re: Trueisms

    Quote Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy View Post
    Even noted racist and capitalist Henry Ford realized that if he didn`t "share the wealth" he couldn`t create a large enough market for his product, so he made sure that his employees were well paid. Yesterday`s manufacturing jobs have been replaced by retail jobs that don`t pay well and don`t provide benefits. Sure there is some offset to that in that generally the imported goods cost less so they are more affordable to these "Wal-Mart-class" employees, but now that they make half as much as they would have actually making the items instead of putting them on the shelf, they pay half the taxes, too. But they don`t have health insurance or a pension either, so is it a surprise that the government ultimately gets involved? The CEO`s are okay, though.

    Those who don`t learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them...or something like that.
    What does this have to do with anything ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

    As far as the rest of the post is concerned, MOST companies do pay a fair wage or as I prefer to say it a fair wage for the job that is being done. This for the time being is a free economy, if you don`t like what you`re making at the job you`re in, move. Better yourself and go somewhere else.

    The employee knew what the wage was for the work that was expected. Simple. Don`t like the $$$ or the work, go somewhere else. Same as the customers, don`t like the place, don`t shop there. Don`t like Fox News (to use someones example) change the channel.

    IMHO Walmart, McDonalds is not a "career", simply it`s a stepping stone.
    Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It`s good to be da King !!!

  5. #50

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    Re: Trueisms

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronkh View Post
    Sell out ????

    More like compete. Wasn`t that long ago that Toyota out sold GM etc. So to me it wasn`t a sell out, it was compete or die.
    Yes, Toyota, one of those famous Chinese brands. Many companies, like GM, were fat dumb and happy and discounted the Japanese products until it was too late. I`m talking about companies like RCA, that moved production to Japan, and others that later moved theirs to China.

    Go to Home Depot and look at the extension cords. They are all made in China. Most of them are American companies; once upon a time, they all made products here. Then one day, one of them decided, hey, we can close our plant here, get out from under all that liability, unions, pensions, health care, and we don`t even need to build our own plant in China, we can just subcontract! We can undercut all our competitors and still hugely increase our profit, and the board will give me (the CEO) a huge bonus! Screw all the people who worked their whole careers here, I just came here from running a fast food chain, I don`t know or care about these people or this community (or extension cords for that matter), all I know is I can make a huge bonus!

    That was a choice, and it`s a slippery slope from there. The Japanese dynamic from the 60`s-90`s was a different one, that was competition coming in from there, like I said before, there are no Chinese brands here, there was no competition coming from China, it was companies here going to China (or Mexico, or other countries).

  6. #51

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    Re: Trueisms

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronkh View Post
    IMHO Walmart, McDonalds is not a "career", simply it`s a stepping stone.
    Stepping stone? To where? Way back when, when you went to McDonald`s, it was all high school kids working there, because it was a "stepping stone". Look at the people working there today--they are adults with families--welcome to the modern world!

    There`s no stepping stones here anymore, they all went to China.

    EDIT: Wait--you`re right--those are stepping stone jobs--McDonalds is a stepping stone to working at Red Lobster, Wal-Mart is a stepping stone to working at Home Depot...

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    Re: Trueisms

    Quote Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy View Post
    Yes, Toyota, one of those famous Chinese brands. Many companies, like GM, were fat dumb and happy and discounted the Japanese products until it was too late. I`m talking about companies like RCA, that moved production to Japan, and others that later moved theirs to China.
    RCA etc had to compete with companies like Sony, JVC and so on.

    We both know where and what happened, we are looking at it from two different perspectives.

    Still in my mind, we need to have businesses compete in the market or the economy dies, We can`t tax, regulate and mandate to success.

    We need to compete or as you said, all we will do is shuffle money, or process information (my words).
    Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It`s good to be da King !!!

  8. #53
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    Re: Trueisms

    Quote Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy View Post
    Stepping stone? To where? Way back when, when you went to McDonald`s, it was all high school kids working there, because it was a "stepping stone". Look at the people working there today--they are adults with families--welcome to the modern world!

    There`s no stepping stones here anymore, they all went to China.

    EDIT: Wait--you`re right--those are stepping stone jobs--McDonalds is a stepping stone to working at Red Lobster, Wal-Mart is a stepping stone to working at Home Depot...
    If those are steps up, yeah. People need to take responsibility for their own success, it`s not my or any government entity to make sure that someone is successful. It is their own drive, motivation, ambition to strive to make a better life.

    Government needs to understand that a hand out is not a hand up. (sorta paraphrasing the original post)
    Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It`s good to be da King !!!
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  9. #54
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    Re: Trueisms

    It is hard to get someone to go out and work when they can make more or only a little less from staying home all day. I used to be in a bass fishing club that I had to quit because I couldn`t bite my tongue any longer there were 3 guys that were out on long term disability. They made it to every tourney and practiced a few times the week before. They manged to launched there boat spend 8 hours standing fishing pulling fish in riding around in rough water pulled there boats at ended drove an hour home its a hard 10-12 hour day fishing beats the hell out of me, but no way they could work they were just to hurt. My favorite was if I did really bad they would tell me how I need to go out to practice more PRACTICE MORE AAAARRRRRRRRGHHHHHH, sorry I had to work 65-70 hours didnt have time.

  10. #55

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    Re: Trueisms

    The undeniable fact is, our government and in particular our current commander in chief, has fostered an atmosphere in this country making it much harder to do business here. I know this, see this , experience this first hand. The amount of paperwork, compliancy testing, etc required today is staggering and extremely costly. We already have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, this is easily verifiable and a fact. The CEO`s etc of the big fortune companies can be argued as overpaid and in many cases I agree they are. Small business however is the driving force in this country. Small business owners in most cases work much harder than their employees, risk their own money, and the current anti-business policies of this administration are making it extremely hard to survive and their heads above water. These people are not immoral money grabbers. They have families, kids in college, medical bills just like everyone else. Making generalities about greedy CEO`s is a small piece of the problem.

    As far as Henry Ford saying a decent wage needs to be paid to purchase his products and create a consumer class, I agree. I agree some corporations put huge profits as a loftier goal than perhaps they should. But what that really comes down to is ethics and morality. I guarantee you the government cannot legislate that. I don`t really see the government having the market sewed up in regards to ethics. There is more corruption in government than in the private sector. They use our tax dollars to fund and buy their voting blocks and act like they do it because they care.

    But again the government cannot create wealth, and cannot fund long term an economy based upon dole outs. If you all believe they can, then every government in every country of the world should just create even larger welfare population an everything will just be fine.

    To a large degree many of us, at least in North America, have opportunities still although they are dwindling. And yes many fall victim to circumstances beyond their control. There should be safety nets , government safety nets, for those. Many individuals have however quit taking responsibility for their own actions, quit trying to better themselves in society. These folks (and they exist in every race, religion, gender, etc) just take shots at those who have worked a little harder, been a little more successful, are a little more resourceful. Much of it in my opinion is pure jealousy. Politicians use "divide and conquer" to satisfy the need to stay in power. It`s done on both sides of the aisle and they are very successful at it.

    When all is said and done, I prefer to rely on myself, my family, or a greedy corporation, as opposed to the government.
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  11. #56
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    Re: Trueisms

    Quote Originally Posted by mobenzowner View Post
    The undeniable fact is, our government and in particular our current commander in chief, has fostered an atmosphere in this country making it much harder to do business here. I know this, see this , experience this first hand. The amount of paperwork, compliancy testing, etc required today is staggering and extremely costly. We already have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, this is easily verifiable and a fact. The CEO`s etc of the big fortune companies can be argued as overpaid and in many cases I agree they are. Small business however is the driving force in this country. Small business owners in most cases work much harder than their employees, risk their own money, and the current anti-business policies of this administration are making it extremely hard to survive and their heads above water. These people are not immoral money grabbers. They have families, kids in college, medical bills just like everyone else. Making generalities about greedy CEO`s is a small piece of the problem.

    As far as Henry Ford saying a decent wage needs to be paid to purchase his products and create a consumer class, I agree. I agree some corporations put huge profits as a loftier goal than perhaps they should. But what that really comes down to is ethics and morality. I guarantee you the government cannot legislate that. I don`t really see the government having the market sewed up in regards to ethics. There is more corruption in government than in the private sector. They use our tax dollars to fund and buy their voting blocks and act like they do it because they care.

    But again the government cannot create wealth, and cannot fund long term an economy based upon dole outs. If you all believe they can, then every government in every country of the world should just create even larger welfare population an everything will just be fine.

    To a large degree many of us, at least in North America, have opportunities still although they are dwindling. And yes many fall victim to circumstances beyond their control. There should be safety nets , government safety nets, for those. Many individuals have however quit taking responsibility for their own actions, quit trying to better themselves in society. These folks (and they exist in every race, religion, gender, etc) just take shots at those who have worked a little harder, been a little more successful, are a little more resourceful. Much of it in my opinion is pure jealousy. Politicians use "divide and conquer" to satisfy the need to stay in power. It`s done on both sides of the aisle and they are very successful at it.

    When all is said and done, I prefer to rely on myself, my family, or a greedy corporation, as opposed to the government.

    Thank you. Lot more eloquent than I am.
    Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It`s good to be da King !!!

  12. #57

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    Re: Trueisms

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronkh View Post
    RCA etc had to compete with companies like Sony, JVC and so on.

    We both know where and what happened, we are looking at it from two different perspectives.

    Still in my mind, we need to have businesses compete in the market or the economy dies, We can`t tax, regulate and mandate to success.

    We need to compete or as you said, all we will do is shuffle money, or process information (my words).
    Maybe RCA was a bad example, it was just a local example and one of the first to close their local facilities and ship that work to Japan--but it was still a choice to do that. A better example might have been Mattel--they didn`t have Japanese competition, they went to Japan in the 60`s to leverage the (at the time) low labor costs, in the same way that many companies did in the 90`s with China.

  13. #58

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    Re: Trueisms

    Quote Originally Posted by mobenzowner View Post
    The undeniable fact is, our government and in particular our current commander in chief, has fostered an atmosphere in this country making it much harder to do business here.
    I think that`s a stretch...this President, this administration, his party...certainly don`t have a lock on regulation--Nixon created the EPA, for Pete`s sake.

  14. #59
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    Trueisms

    Quote Originally Posted by trashmanssd View Post
    It is hard to get someone to go out and work when they can make more or only a little less from staying home all day. I used to be in a bass fishing club that I had to quit because I couldn`t bite my tongue any longer there were 3 guys that were out on long term disability. They made it to every tourney and practiced a few times the week before. They manged to launched there boat spend 8 hours standing fishing pulling fish in riding around in rough water pulled there boats at ended drove an hour home its a hard 10-12 hour day fishing beats the hell out of me, but no way they could work they were just to hurt. My favorite was if I did really bad they would tell me how I need to go out to practice more PRACTICE MORE AAAARRRRRRRRGHHHHHH, sorry I had to work 65-70 hours didnt have time.
    I see so much "disability" fraud - it`s really grievous. I always see the guy who worked at labor job "X" 10 years ago and hurt his arm or back. 10 years later, he`s still collecting... Some how these dudes can always hunt, fish, ride ATVs all day, and build stuff... But, work - No.

    It`s like - dude, I understand you got hurt like 10 years ago - but there is other jobs and training out there for jobs that don`t require you to lift heavy boxes all day.

    You always have to make the disclaimer HERE that of course those who are legitimately hurt and can`t work should receive help. But the bottom line is, there are like a million people each day who go to work and succeed with disabilities, handicaps, and injuries. After a while on the couch, it may be time to take those lemons and make lemonade.

    Look at a guy like Mike Phillips. All my admiration goes to him. He lost a LEG and still details cars at top pro level. Most of us with aches and pains can`t even imagine what that must have been like. So much depends on attitude and willingness to try - just do it.
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  15. #60
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    Re: Trueisms

    Quote Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy View Post
    Maybe RCA was a bad example, it was just a local example and one of the first to close their local facilities and ship that work to Japan--but it was still a choice to do that. A better example might have been Mattel--they didn`t have Japanese competition, they went to Japan in the 60`s to leverage the (at the time) low labor costs, in the same way that many companies did in the 90`s with China.
    I used your RCA example, you called it...

    Might it also to have been to make a less expensive item so that more people could afford it ????
    Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It`s good to be da King !!!

 

 
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