are you happy with Obama`s progress so far?

[WAS]

Listen and listen good , i told you are system has it`s flaws (like preexisting conditions) but when universal health care has major problems where ever it`s been tried . You don`t go and try it yourself when time and time again it doesn`t work. IT`S LIKE STICKING YOUR HAND IN A FIRE,IF IT BURNS YOU WON`T DO IT AGAIN. And as far as you going all over the world and experiencing health care here and there, What`s to say i have to believe you. If you believe in SICKO I`m supposed to believe you ? GULP GULP

"our" system, not "are" system. "Its" flaws, not "it`s" flaws. Please take some time to proof what you`re writing, so we don`t have to read it 4 or 5 times to understand what you`re trying to say.



Again, you make a blanket statement that universal health care has major problems wherever it`s been tried. Please, enlighten me on what`s majorly wrong with the NHS in the UK, or the national health care insurance system in France. Or what`s wrong with the universal health care system in Canada. Here`s part of an article from Business Week:



France also demonstrates that you can deliver stellar results with this mix of public and private financing. In a recent World Health Organization health-care ranking, France came in first, while the U.S. scored 37th, slightly better than Cuba and one notch above Slovenia. France`s infant death rate is 3.9 per 1,000 live births, compared with 7 in the U.S., and average life expectancy is 79.4 years, two years more than in the U.S. The country has far more hospital beds and doctors per capita than America, and far lower rates of death from diabetes and heart disease. The difference in deaths from respiratory disease, an often preventable form of mortality, is particularly striking: 31.2 per 100,000 people in France, vs. 61.5 per 100,000 in the U.S.



The entire article can be found here: The French Lesson In Health Care



As someone who has personally experienced and lived in different systems, again, I find it insulting that you continue to try and tell us all that universal health care has such major problems. You can`t even tell me WHAT those problems are. And even if you tried, you`ve NEVER experienced a different type of health care system first-hand, so all you`re doing is throwing out hypothetical situations that may not even be factual.



I never said I completely believed Sicko. Michael Moore isn`t a 100% objective documentarist, but the movie does shed light on some very important topics and issues surrounding the US health care payment system. It`s also not something you "believe". There are facts, and there are non-facts. It`s as simple as that.

[CHEVYMAN]

it`s light on some very important topics (not "like") see how that works?:lol

[WAS]

it`s light on some very important topics (not "like") see how that works?:lol

Typo, and was fixed before you had a chance to reply. I find it amusing that you constantly have nothing to come back with in this discussion. You`ve been challenged on what you`ve said for the past 3 pages, and never do you actually come back with a response, just more "drink the kool-aid" statements.

[CHEVYMAN]

Typo, and was fixed before you had a chance to reply. I find it amusing that you constantly have nothing to come back with in this discussion. You`ve been challenged on what you`ve said for the past 3 pages, and never do you actually come back with a response, just more "drink the kool-aid" statements.

It`s funny (notice "it`s" that is correct right?) that any documented information that is given to you ,you just seem to stick to your own ways and that`s the way progressives are. They know what`s best for you and we are always wrong and that`s why this country that i love is going to sh** because of one sided people like yourself. Your right and the whole country is wrong. WHATEVER

[WAS]

It`s funny (notice "it`s" that is correct right?) that any documented information that is given to you ,you just seem to stick to your own ways and that`s the way progressives are. They know what`s best for you and we are always wrong and that`s why this country that i love is going to sh** because of one sided people like yourself. Your right and the whole country is wrong. WHATEVER

lol, yet AGAIN, you completely avoid commenting or arguing on ANYTHING that I`ve said and brought to the table. Is it because you have nothing of substance ? Is it because you have this view that your private health care system is the best and that`s it, without having any actual data to back that up ? One-sided people like myself ? Why am I one-sided ? I believe in universal health care where greedy insurance companies aren`t in charge of it. I didn`t say that Canada had the best system in the world. Or the UK, or France. Or Switzerland or Germany (who btw are still running on a pay-for-insurance system, but a bit different than the system in the US). I believe that private clinics DO have their place in the system (for professional athletes for example who are willing to pay for that elective knee surgery they caused themselves), and I believe there are ways to certainly improve how we do things here in Canada.



As for your statement on "your right {it`s actually "you`re" if you want to nit-pick} and the whole country is wrong", ummmmmmmm, a great many of you Americans aren`t satisfied with your health care system and want a change. Yes, there are a lot of you that don`t want to see a change (some just have a blanket fear of socialist policies, some believe in rich vs poor, etc), but I think you`d be surprised how many of you actually do. You`re acting like 99% of the country isn`t in favour of this change, when that simply isn`t the case. I also think you`d be surprised how many proponents of your current system would be open to different ideas after having to fully use the system once in their life.

[CHEVYMAN]

Take a look at what actually is in the Health Care bill. Obama makes disingenuous comments like “You’ll still keep your doctor� or “You’ll keep your existing health care.� He is either lying to us or he has no idea what is in it. Take a peek at the full report, or look at some of the highlights here:



Pg 22 of the HC Bill mandates the Government will audit books of all employers that self insure. Can you imagine what that will do to small businesses? Every one will abandon “self insurance� and go on Government insurance. So when Obama says that there will still be private health care, it’s simply a lie: this mandate will force employers to abandon their private plans.



Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill – a Government committee (good luck with that!) will decide what treatments/benefits a person may receive.



Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill – YOUR HEALTHCARE WILL BE RATIONED! (We all knew this, because health care is rationed in Canada and Britain, but Obama kept saying it would not be).



Pg 42 of HC Bill – The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You will have no choice!



PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill – HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.



Pg 58 HC Bill – Government will have real-time access to individual’s finances and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!



Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Government will have direct access to your bank accts for election funds transfer



PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (read: ACORN).



Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Government will create an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Government control.



PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill – Government mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.



PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill – Specifics of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Government will ration your Healthcare!



PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill – Government mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example – Translation for illegal aliens.



Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Government will use groups, i.e. ACORN & Americorps, to sign up individuals for Government HC plan.



PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill – Specifics of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members – your Health care WILL be rationed.



-PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill – Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.



pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue Government on price fixing. No “judicial review� against Government Monopoly.



pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill – Doctors/ AMA – The Government will tell YOU what you can earn.



Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.



Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.



Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll $400k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.



pg 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between $251k & $400k who don’t provide public option pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.



Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according to Government will be taxed 2.5% of income.



Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.)



Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (the GOVERNMENT) will have access to ALL Americans’ finances and personal records.



PG 203 Line 14-15 HC – “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax� Yes, it says that.



Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.



Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill – Doctors – doesn’t matter what specialty – will all be paid the same.



PG 253 Line 10-18 Government sets value of Doctor’s time, professional judgment, etc. Literally, value of humans.



PG 265 Sec 1131Government mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.



PG 268 Sec 1141 Federal Government regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.



PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing!



Page 280 Sec 1151 The Government will penalize hospitals for what Government deems preventable readmissions.



Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Doctors who treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission – Government will penalize you.



Pg 317 L 13-20 OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Government tells Doctors what/how much they can own.



Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion – Government will mandate hospitals cannot expand.



pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can u say ACORN?!



Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 – Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures which of course forces health care rationing.



Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc., forcing people into Government plan.



Pg 354 Sec 1177 – Government will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!



Pg 379 Sec 1191 Government creates more bureaucracy – Telehealth Advisory Committee. HC by phone.



PG 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consultations. Think Senior Citizens end of life prodding.



Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Government will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!



PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in how to die.



PG 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends.



Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An “advanced care planning consultant� will be used frequently as patients’ health deteriorates.



PG 429 Lines 10-12 “advanced care consultation� may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from the Government to end a life!



Pg 429 Lines 13-25 – The Government will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.



PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.



Pg 469 – Community Based Home Medical Services/Non profit orgs. (ACORN Medical Services here?)



Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATION. 1 monthly payment to a community-based organization. (Like ACORN?)



PG 489 Sec 1308 The Government will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Government into our marriages.



Pg 494-498 Government will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services. You’d better speak up now before you are on the “advanced care consultation� list.

[WAS]

Take a look at what actually is in the Health Care bill. Obama makes disingenuous comments like “You’ll still keep your doctor� or “You’ll keep your existing health care.� He is either lying to us or he has no idea what is in it. Take a peek at the full report, or look at some of the highlights here:



Pg 22 of the HC Bill mandates the Government will audit books of all employers that self insure. Can you imagine what that will do to small businesses? Every one will abandon “self insurance� and go on Government insurance. So when Obama says that there will still be private health care, it’s simply a lie: this mandate will force employers to abandon their private plans.



Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill – a Government committee (good luck with that!) will decide what treatments/benefits a person may receive.



PG 489 Sec 1308 The Government will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Government into our marriages.



Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill – YOUR HEALTHCARE WILL BE RATIONED! (We all knew this, because health care is rationed in Canada and Britain, but Obama kept saying it would not be).

Why can`t you still keep your existing doctor under the new system ? The new system is merely a change in how the payment process works for health care, it doesn`t change the fundamental structure of how your health care is delivered (in hospitals, family clinics, etc).



What`s wrong with book auditing of self-insured employers ? I fail to see how this will cause major problems....



That`s probably a committee that oversees all possible treatments across the country, not on a per-person basis. You already have this committee, it`s called the FDA. The FDA is already responsible for approving new medication, I don`t see much difference here.



So marriage counseling is now included in your health care plan. What`s wrong with that ? Instead of paying out of pocket, the government pays for it. The therapist is the same, the place you go to is the same, the difference is who`s paying the bill. Also, I fail to see your complaint about government being involved in your marriage. Nothing is forcing anyone to attend marriage counseling, you do so at your own free will.



... Yet again, I find it insulting that you keep commenting on Canada`s health care system when you know NOTHING about it. Our health care is not "rationed". This is a completely FALSE statement. What do you think, us Canadians up here try to keep health care spending down to $0.50 a person a year ? Your ignorance is getting a bit old and annoying now.

[CHEVYMAN]

I`m just giving you the facts of what they want to do to our health care, And these are the facts. This is straight out of the health care bill. No if and or buts. You can not question anything here because it`s in black and white!!!!!! WHY MUST YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE IN ALL OUR LIVES I SAY STAY THE F*** OUT OF MY LIFE AND LEAVE ME ALONE. BIG GOVERNMENT SUCKS!!! IF YOU WANT TO LIVE EVERYDAY WITH BIG BROTHER WATCH AND KNOWING WHAT`S GOING ON BE MY GUEST. NOT ME PAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !:angry

[rt4x4]

ccss2005 were did you get your information?

[Lenny]

ccss2005 were did you get your information?

probably the Cracker Jack boxes distributed by the tea party putzes.....

[CHEVYMAN]

You know at first i thought i was talking to someone with a mind but you know i guess i was wrong. Stick to your beliefs and your bull sh** ways and good luck because your wasting my time . And if you haven`t found a job by now you loser than good for you, you deserve what you get. If you can`t find a job then tough sh** on you, I`m tired of your excuses Your probably holding out for a top paying job instead of getting your a** out there and looking. Good luck in your loser of a life you have. Don`t waste anymore of my time. SEE YA!! You know you must not be doing so bad if can afford to keep using your computer . Your one of those people that want to suck off the government so you must be one of those welfare cases that I`m always paying for!! Go get a job and stop complaining LOSER

[CHEVYMAN]

You know at first i wrote something nasty but i deleted it, because I`m better than that. All i can say is you believe what you believe and I`ll believe what is FACTS.

So marriage counseling is now included in your health care plan. What`s wrong with that ? Instead of paying out of pocket, the government pays for it.

You are amazing..........The Government pays for it. Yes that`s true. Where do you think the government gets the money ? (I can`t believe i have to explain this to you) TAX PAYERS YOU *******. You know what I`m done with both of you WELFARE CASES!!!! GOOD BYE!!!!

[Lenny]

You know at first i wrote something nasty but i deleted it, because I`m better than that. All i can say is you believe what you believe and I`ll believe what is FACTS.







You are amazing..........The Government pays for it. Yes that`s true. Where do you think the government gets the money ? (I can`t believe i have to explain this to you) TAX PAYERS YOU *******. You know what I`m done with both of you WELFARE CASES!!!! GOOD BYE!!!!

Gee, was it something I said?



BTW, deleted after it was posted, or not, everyone who subscribes to this thread saw what was originally posted. I saw it in my email. No further comment.

[ntwrkguy1]

Wow.....this has turned into a rather lively debate. Normally, I try to stay out of the political discussions, but this one is pretty compelling. One of the better "Hot Tub" discussions in recent memory, if I say so myself.



As to the OP question, I`m not impressed with Obama`s "progress". Like a few others on the forum, I am old enough to remember the Carter years, and honestly, NOTHING good happened then. While I will be the first to admit Obama inherited some "issues", you can`t blame EVERYTHING on Bush. Kinda like me telling my dentist "I think that cavity was caused by the donut I ate this morning.....or maybe it`s because I haven`t been brushing. It`s one or the other." It`s never easy in politics, because there is always mudslinging by both sides. Part of the issue with Obama is the fact that he was a political virgin from an extremely corrupt state. My apologies to all of the IL Autopian`s, but history does not lie. IL, and Chicago in particular, is practically the birthplace of political corruption. Mix that in with the fact that he has some very socialist leanings, and I`m am not surprised at Obama`s sinking approval rating.



A couple of observations from my years on the planet: Politicians are inherently dishonest. ALL politicians, regardless of party affiliation. For every Rangel, Pelosi, Reid, Frank, et al, there are correspondingly bad Republicans. Government rarely does anything well, and larger government is certain to create problems. There are really only two types of "good" politicians: dead ones, and moderates.



The reason Clinton was so popular -- despite the incredible stupidity he displayed in his personal life -- lay in the fact that he was a moderate. Just like drinking, politics is best in moderation. We`ve swung WAY too far to the left with this "community organizer" that we have in office now, and I have virtually NO interest in seeing what a far right president looks like, especially if it is Palin. For some reason, as others have noted, it`s a country of extremes right now, either far right or far left. Both viewpoints have inherent pitfalls, and are susceptible to special interest interference.



Personally, I will be shocked if Obama is re-elected. He got the ultimate hall pass from the MSM during the campaign, and anyone that disagreed with him was painted as a racist. Unfortunately for Obama, his own personal chickens are coming home to roost, and I don`t think it`s going to end well. The Obamas, as a family, have been on EIGHT vacations this summer -- how many have you been on? Right now, he`s viewed as a political lightweight who is married to a bitter harpy. There are MILLIONS of unemployed people in the country right now who are watching Obama`s behavior closely. He may have gotten their vote in `08, but it`s unlikely he`ll get their vote in `12.



The last 3 years have caused me to rethink my voting. I`m a registered Independent, and have voted for both Democrats and Republicans over the years. Both parties, however, are in need of a complete housecleaning, and the best place to start is at the polls in the upcoming elections. You have to remember that these amoral humans will NEVER approve term limits, so it`s up to us, the voting public, to flush that toilet that we know as "politics" from time to time.



If Harry Truman were alive today, he would probably prefer to drop the next A-Bomb on Washington, D.C.

[artm3]

OH BOY YOU JUST KEEP DRINKING THAT KOOL- AID. BECAUSE IF YOU BELIEVE "SICKO" THEN YOU HAVE FALLEN UNDER THE SPELL AND THEIR IS NO TURNING BACK. SO SAD, YES, SO SAD Another one bites the dust GOOD LUCK!!!

is psychiatric care covered?



considering the situation he inherited I`d say he`s doing better than expected...

balancing a recession

2 wars

and trying to fix healthcare, the most likely thing to bankrupt this country, with SS a close second...



I`d say yes...

I can only imagine the mess if the previous admin were still at the helm

hell, they put us in this jam...and now everyone expects it fixed in <2 years...(I voted for gee-dub 1st go around, fool me once...shame on you...)

typical American mentality

instant gratification

I`m right, everyone else is wrong



we are doomed...the divisiveness, hate for fellow Americans of the `other` political persuasion, and good old greed will be our undoing...