#7 Safe For Fresh Paint?

**Bert** · 07-09-2008, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by David Fermani

3M hands down in body shops. If I had to gauge, I`d say 95% of the shops use their stuff. I never see Production and Auto Magic in body shops, but they have a strong presence in dealership prep departments.

What are your thoughts on Production Car Care Products?

**Holden_C04** · 07-09-2008, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by bert31

What are your thoughts on Production Car Care Products?

I`m not a big fan of how they are marketed.

YouTube - Meguiars defeated outside the Auto Zone

Nonetheless, let`s stay on topic if we may.

**imported_Picus** · 07-09-2008, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by Holden_C04

Off Topic: See you at Bubble Tea, Picus. :LOLOL

I`m going to try my best to be there!

**imported_User Name** · 07-09-2008, 09:14 PM

Mike`s response seems spot on, I just don`t think you like the answer.

As for Meg`s customer service... I think they are second to none, but specifically about your links... I think the issue is that you are offering opinions about car care that differ from the Meg`s position and in doing so, they feel the need to correct you.

Unlike this forum, the MOL is product specific and the mods at that forum are Meg`s experts (like Mike). So, if you give an opinion which is at odds with their position, they`ll correct it. Frankly, I don`t see anything wrong with that.

**Holden_C04** · 07-09-2008, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by User Name

Mike`s response seems spot on, I just don`t think you like the answer.

As for Meg`s customer service... I think they are second to none, but specifically about your links... I think the issue is that you are offering opinions about car care that differ from the Meg`s position and in doing so, they feel the need to correct you.

Unlike this forum, the MOL is product specific and the mods at that forum are Meg`s experts (like Mike). So, if you give an opinion which is at odds with their position, they`ll correct it. Frankly, I don`t see anything wrong with that.

Hi 3fitty. :chuckle:

I am not really one to argue. Rather, I prefer to state my case and present evidence if necessary. You`ve made your position known and I respect that.

**imported_User Name** · 07-09-2008, 09:20 PM

You mean the different angle in my avatar didn`t "trick" you.

**imported_User Name** · 07-09-2008, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Holden_C04

Hi 3fitty. :chuckle:

I am not really one to argue. Rather, I prefer to state my case and present evidence if necessary. You`ve made your position known and I respect that.

You added the second line after I posted.

I wasn`t arguing, just trying to state what I thought made sense. I`ve seen your work, it looks really amazing. I`d let you detail one of my cars any day.

I just think you (and many others here) are way too easily caught up in the "expensive = quality" type of thinking. In fact, I would think (at least intuitively) that as a professional detailer, one good way to maximize profits would be to offer the highest quality product at the lowest cost to yourself.

**Holden_C04** · 07-09-2008, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by User Name

You added the second line after I posted.

I wasn`t arguing, just trying to state what I thought made sense. I`ve seen your work, it looks really amazing. I`d let you detail one of my cars any day.

I just think you (and many others here) are way too easily caught up in the "expensive = quality" type of thinking. In fact, I would think (at least intuitively) that as a professional detailer, one good way to maximize profits would be to offer the highest quality product at the lowest cost to yourself.

No, I like the Menzerna because of the way it performs. The same could be said for Einszett and Swissvax, and everything else. I like using products that offer me peak performance and when I find that, I stick to it. It`s not a money thing, it really isn`t. I think that`s what Megs want you to believe.

Also...

Originally Posted by Mike Phillips

It`s easy if you`re young or new to detailing to read a bunch of stuff on other forums like,

"Meguiar`s is pretty good for an OTC product"

When that is so far from the bigger picture and just an indicator of the lack of knowledge by the people that make posts like this.

Funny, Mike never really asked me about this. If he had, I could explain to him why I would make that type of statement. And it`s something he could not know.

It`s simple really. I live in Canada. At the time I made that statement, my access to Meguiars products was limited. I could order out of a catalog or choose between the various consumer line products in Canadian Tire. I thought they offer enhanced performance over other consumer line products, hence the statement.

Simple, really. Nothing to get your panties in a twist.

**Holden_C04** · 07-09-2008, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by User Name

You added the second line after I posted.

....Sorry.

**David Fermani** · 07-09-2008, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by User Name

Mike`s response seems spot on, I just don`t think you like the answer.

Unlike this forum, the MOL is product specific and the mods at that forum are Meg`s experts (like Mike). So, if you give an opinion which is at odds with their position, they`ll correct it. Frankly, I don`t see anything wrong with that.

Who would like this answer; especially the way it`s coming off? After reading this again, I find this part of Mike`s response to Holden_C04 kinda insulting. Especially because he highlights/bolds a certain section:

Originally Posted by Mike Phillips

When that is so far from the bigger picture and just an indicator of the lack of knowledge by the people that make posts like this.

He`s basically calling you out & telling you you`re not knowledgeable. What makes him compelled to talk down to you just because you ask a simple about a product of his you plan on using. He wasn`t asking about a competitors product. He just isn`t coming off real respectful.

**imported_User Name** · 07-09-2008, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Holden_C04

No, I like the Menzerna because of the way it performs. The same could be said for Einszett and Swissvax, and everything else. I like using products that offer me peak performance and when I find that, I stick to it. It`s not a money thing, it really isn`t. I think that`s what Megs want you to believe.

Also...

That`s fair enough, except for the last line because it assumes way too much. I`ve been a recreational car detailer since 1992 (when I bought my first car from Formula Honda on Markham & Steeles - yes, I grew up in T Dot), and I`ve tried many products in my years of experimenting. I`ve just seen very few products worth using vs. good OTC products like Meguiars.

See, unlike you, when I bought my first ride, I was actually told by a body shop guy to use Meg`s and I tried it, liked it and it has stuck with me. I`ve tried hundreds of products over the years (Poorboys Wheel Sealant most recent disappointment) and I have had very few change my mind. In fact, the only thing I can think of (recently) which I liked better than a Meg`s product is clay magic.

I`m not saying there isn`t anything better, (I couldn`t because it would only be my opinion and I haven`t tried everything), but what I am saying is that in the area of price vs. performance nobody has ever shown me anything to suggest I should make the switch.

In fact, the next time I`m up in Toronto visiting my family... lets to a comparison. I`ll bring one of my cars, half to you, half to me and we`ll ask random people what looks better. Who knows, maybe you`ll convince me.

Funny, Mike never really asked me about this. If he had, I could explain to him why I would make that type of statement. And it`s something he could not know.

It`s simple really. I live in Canada. At the time I made that statement, my access to Meguiars products was limited. I could order out of a catalog or choose between the various consumer line products in Canadian Tire. I thought they offer enhanced performance over other consumer line products, hence the statement.

Simple, really. Nothing to get your panties in a twist.

Well, I don`t know why, because I always got a boat load of Meg`s stuff at Canadian Tire. In fact, last time in T.O. I went to the C-Tire on McCowan and Sheppard and they had an amazing collection.

**Holden_C04** · 07-09-2008, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by User Name

In fact, the next time I`m up in Toronto visiting my family... lets to a comparison. I`ll bring one of my cars, half to you, half to me and we`ll ask random people what looks better. Who knows, maybe you`ll convince me.

Sounds like a plan. I`m a little North of the city, and not far from the dealership you mentioned. :2thumbs:

Well, I don`t know why, because I always got a boat load of Meg`s stuff at Canadian Tire. In fact, last time in T.O. I went to the C-Tire on McCowan and Sheppard and they had an amazing collection.

They`ve added more stock, especially from the professional line. Hence my thread.

**imported_User Name** · 07-09-2008, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by David Fermani

He`s basically calling you out & telling you you`re not knowledgeable. What makes him compelled to talk down to you just because you ask a simple about a product of his you plan on using. He wasn`t asking about a competitors product. He just isn`t coming off real respectful.

Well, I can`t speak for him or what he was thinking, but having exchanged several messages with him (in the past) and having him give me many tips on detailing it doesn`t see in line with his character.

To me it is a simple case of a disagreement in philosophy and his attempt to correct that philosophical difference.

Let me put it to you this way... look at Zaino... Sal Zaino says "wash with Dawn" as his first step to ensure that you are starting with a properly prepped surface. Meg`s says "no way", Dawn is for dishes.

This represents a philosophical difference between the companies, so if Joe Blow goes on MOL and says, "yes, use the 5 step approach, starting with Dawn", the Meg`s people will correct them. Simple really.

Also, I`m not sure how you can read how someone is coming off. I got suspended from this forum for a week, for telling some kid who was starting a new business that spending 3 grand on a wax was a bad idea. When my "words" offended some really thin skinned detailers I got the boot for effectively giving the kid sound business advice. So, in the same vain, I would say you`re probably reading too much into this.