can you cause swirls in your wax/sealant?

[krnnerdboy]

So it seems that certain wax and sealants are soft and swirls can be easily be marred into it? When I`m done washing and I dry, I can noticeably see swirls caused by the drying towel, however when I wash it to prep for polishing the marring is gone as well as the sealant/wax? My only explanantion of this is that the marring is only sealant deep? any help

[David Fermani]

You`re not swirling up your wax/sealant, you`re swirling up your paint.

[togwt]

Any coating applied to a paint surface can sustain swirl marks within its surface- clear coat paint- wax- polymer sealant- polymer coating, before its cross-linked or cured the coating is soft and will therefore show marks

[Ron Ketcham]

Exactly, any wax or sealant is softer than a cross-linked, cured paint.

Heat makes a difference as well, as most waxes have at least one type of wax in the combination that has a low fracture point.

Grumpy

[David Fermani]

Any coating applied to a paint surface can sustain swirl marks within its surface- clear coat paint- wax- polymer sealant- polymer coating, before its cross-linked or cured the coating is soft and will therefore show marks

But the OP is stating that he sees swirls after washing, which I`m assuming that the wax/sealant has already cured at that point.



Seeing that wax/sealant is basically an oil, when fresh it can smear which can appear to be swirling. But this effect is very short term and I have never see it withstand a wash. I don`t see how a layer of sealant/wax, (which isn`t even measureable) can show visable swirls?

[Ron Ketcham]

Clearcoat are marred or scratched, correct?

They are much harder than a wax or sealant, correct?

Of course a wax or sealant will accept marring, that is what many see as "swirls" on their finish, so they put on a fresh coat of either and "walla" magically gone.

Both waxes and sealants are "protective coatings" and are "semi-permanent" coatings that are prone to removal by evaporation, washing, heat exposure, etc, and heat does soften waxes, even many sealants will start to "fracture" (soften) at temps over 180F, quality sealants can withstand up to almost 300F.

However they will, over time oxidize/breakdown, etc.

Grumpy

[David Fermani]

Forgive me for being chemical illiterate, but I`d like to consider paint as being of solid "structure" and wax/sealant as being a "liquid". Yes, one is softer, but how does a liquid applied to a surface scratch/marr? Isn`t this marring appearance just repositioning of oil molecules?

[Ron Ketcham]

Both cure, right?

Just that the paint molecules go through a more complete crosslinking, become "denser".

What you are actually dealing with could be considered the "density" of the surface.

Sealants and waxes are not as "dense" as the clear, and are more easily affected by thermo issues.

Grumpy

[Accumulator]

To determine whether the marring is in the paint or in the LSP, just strip the latter and see if the marring disappears. It sounds like, incredibly enough... that`s what`s happening for krnnerdboy. As best I can recall, I can count on one hand the number of times I`ve had marred LSP over unmarred paint, but I guess it`s another of those YMMV things.



krnnerdboy- Welcome to Autopia!



I`d switch to a softer drying medium/method, one that doesn`t mar things up. And/or a tougher LSP. I don`t find the LSPs I`m using to be soft at all, no issues with them getting marred up by normal wash/dry routines.

[krnnerdboy]

thank you very much guys!



my lsp was HD speed, but I recently found out that it was my wool mitt that was causing the swirls. Right after a fresh polishing I washed the car and while using the water fall technique I saw the swirls in the same pattern as my stroke. threw that one away and ordered some trusty blue grout sponges.

[OneTimeUse]

Clearcoat are marred or scratched, correct?

They are much harder than a wax or sealant, correct?

Of course a wax or sealant will accept marring, that is what many see as "swirls" on their finish, so they put on a fresh coat of either and "walla" magically gone.

I just signed up after viewing this thread just to let you know that the term is "voila", not "walla".

[togwt]

I just signed up after viewing this thread just to let you know that the term is "voila", not "walla".

Seriously, you went to the trouble of registering on a detailing forum just to correct someone grammar...

[togwt]

Automotive paint (urethane) is classified as a semi-permeable thermo-setting membrane; that is it moves in unison with its metal substrate, this is termed as elasticity (tensile strength and elongation) a paint surface is often subjected to high ambient temperatures, which cause a temperature swings in excess of 40.OF. A paint surface must remains flexible while retaining its tensile strength, to enable it to expand and contract, following any temperature fluctuations of the substrate, elasticity is imperative; otherwise the paint film would crack.



A thermosetting plastic is polymer material that irreversibly cures; the cure may be accomplished through heat (generally above 392 °F (200.OC) or through a chemical reaction (two-part epoxy). The curing process transforms the resin into a plastic by a cross-linking process. Energy and/or catalysts are added that cause the molecular chains to react, chemically linking into a semi-rigid, 3-D structure.



A polymer is said to be thermoplastic because it becomes softer and more flexible with a rise in temperature. Above its glass transition temperature it behaves more like a liquid than a solid. The polymers used in polyurethane paints are generally thermoplastic.



To a similar extent a protective coating, be it wax sealant or semi-permanent coating also remains elastic to follow the sustrates thermal induced movement, therwise the `film` would crack

[Accumulator]

.. I recently found out that it was my wool mitt that was causing the swirls. Right after a fresh polishing I washed the car and while using the water fall technique I saw the swirls in the same pattern as my stroke. threw that one away and ordered some trusty blue grout sponges.

I`ll be interested to hear how things go with the grout sponge :think:



You CD-tested the mitt (and the sponge) before use right..testing "wet"/saturated with shampoo mix?



Unless it was a synthetic-wool mitt (the Meguiar`s one is notorious for marring paint), I`d still think it was dirt that was between the mitt and the paint, rather than the mitt itself, but hey...that`s just my (somewhat educated ) guess.

Seriously, you went to the trouble of registering on a detailing forum just to correct someone grammar...

Heh heh, nice to know there`s somebody even more pedantic that Yours Truly out there policing Autopia :chuckle: