Autopia Guide to Detailing: What is Filling in "Paint Correction"...

[MirrorDetailing]

Posting this from another forum where bad information was giving too a lot of people who did not know either way. Figured some quest or new members would see this and it will help them when searching for true Autopian Detailers.



As of recently there has been so much bad advice thrown around and products that are not considered anything more than OTC Autozone/Advance/Napa/O`Rileys grade products. I know many people have said that products "fill" and I am starting to think that either that information falls on blind eyes or people do not understand what we are referring too. I actually keep a set of pictures of a good before and after of exactly what crappy products with lots of fillers in them do.



Here is a customers black car that was nice and swirled up was before...







Now using 3M 3000 Step #3 Ultrafina with the LC Black Pad and a Griots DA at Speed 4...basically there should be ZERO cut with this process. After working the area for 2-3 passes...here are the afters.







Very noticeable difference. Nothing was corrected just filled in. If I was too follow this up with an Alcohol, Mineral Spirits or Eraser Oil Cleaner wipe down...it would look like this...







Basically nothing happened. Most "professionals" and I use that term loosely will do things like this then seal and wax the paint with more filling style Sealants and Waxes to help lock in the polish fillers to keep the car looking fake good for a little while. Over the course of a few washes the scratches are back.



Now in some cases this is a common technique from hack detailers with uninformed customers and will keep the customers coming back to waste more money with the detailer. Be it either the detailer has no idea what they are doing or they are intentionally doing it and convincing the customer otherwise.



So for those who wonder what we mean by "filling" this is it. For those who plan to go to professionals too have their vehicles done, its great to ask question. Get an idea of what products, pads and techniques the detailer uses and double check on the internet. Base prices against others. If someone can do a "full correction" in 3-5 hours...run...run far away. If you get quoted at $50-150 for a "full correction" .... run...run far away. Using the correction products, techniques, pads and buffers by someone who knows exactly what they are doing...will run you a lot more.



I get people blown away by my prices all the time. Someone will want FULL correction and their vehicle sealed and waxed. They are shocked when I tell them between $500-1000 in a blind quote. I will sometimes get responses as above that such and such will do it for $100. There is a reason i offer what I do and they offer what they do. My price justifies upwards of 15-30 hours of work...versus the ladder doing it in 3-5 hours, such as dealership detailers.

[David Fermani]

Excellent article! You touched on a lot of very important issues that can and will help tremendously for many people. Giving it a rating above as 5 stars Excellent

[Leadfootluke]

Great thread!



Next thread subject for you to delve into: My customers paint looks awesome in low light, but please don`t inspect it with a bright light.



Keep up the good work!

[togwt]

[...from another forum where bad information was giving too a lot of people who did not know either way]



Sometimes the advice given will take your breath away ( Confusing Enthusiasm with Knowledge)

[A.M.Detailing]

Great article. Im interested in seeing/reading on what steps YOU take to correctly do paint correction. I know it depends on how bad the paint really is but lets just assume it is the same as the swirls in the pics above. I am somewhat experienced but would consider myself very new to detailingcompared to alot of you guys on here.

[togwt]

There are times when its legitimate to use a product with `filling` abilites



If you have reservations about the amount of paint surface removed or the amount of paint coating remaining the use of a paint thickness gauge (PTG) is arbitrary. There comes a point when you must judge wither removing a scratch will compromise the clear coat and if so you’ll have to ‘live’ with the imperfection, or use a Glaze, which use Kaolin or China clay; their filling abilities are sometimes used on vehicle with thin paint, were further polishing would compromise the paint.

[Accumulator]

There are times when its legitimate to use a product with `filling` abilites...

That came to my mind too. Perhaps *especially* with regard to Pros doing cars for people who won`t be willing/able to *keep* them marring free. You just can`t keep correcting a given vehicle`s paint over and over again. Not that people with leased vehicles probably care as long as the clear doesn`t fail by turn-on time.



Note that as I read it, MachNU was discussing cases where a "Pro" claimed to do correction but didn`t really do that. And yeah, that`s despicable and oh-too-common.







A.M.Detailing- Welcome to Autopia!



In the pictured case, the short answer it to use the Griot`s polisher with a more aggressive product/pad combo, one that actually abrades the surface to level it down like sanding a piece of wood. Combos like Ultrafina/black finshing pad/speed 4 are only used to burnish/"jewel" an already-corrected finish.

[imported_MCA]

Great post! Especially with it being summer, I see a lot of the $5 car wash places offering full details for an additional $100. I just cringe because they are inducing more marring by wiping down a not-so-clean car and then taking a rotary on a 5-minute trip around the car.....of course, the true damage is concealed under their wax.

...Next thread subject for you to delve into: My customers paint looks awesome in low light, but please don`t inspect it with a bright light...

This is one thing that turns me off from any posts. It`s an "automatic jump to another thread" if a poster shows a picture of their vehicle inside their garage without any light focused directly on the paint surface. It is the equivalent of "beer goggles" for car detailing - It doesn`t matter if your car is marred to hell, pull it into a garage w/ poor lighting and she`ll win any contest.

[tuscarora dave]

Something I observe in my area is that some of the detail centers not only use these filling style of glaze/polishes but they seem to only know about wool pads, and aggressive wool pads at that. So essentially the car looks much worse after the fillers are washed away than before their customer brought the car to these so called professional detailers. I absolutely have a place in my arsenal for products like this. I have a few small used car dealers in my area that typically don`t mind spending the money to have a daily driver type of paint correction done with me. That is with me using something like Meguiars D-300 or even M-105 followed by 205. (I have some 3D products in the testing phase) From time to time they just have beater trades that need a real cheap and quick turn around so they get Mothers Machine Glaze with foam pad and rotary. (I just bought HD Speed to try for this)



I also have quite a few clients from a not quite so affluent demographic who want a finish that looks really nice and doesn`t break the bank. Am I to send them off to the guy with the aggressive wool pads and Malco Finishing Glaze, citing that that`s unprofessional methodology? No way. I explain what they do and then I explain that I can provide an inexpensive service that isn`t going to last forever and these folks are typically good with that, some even come over to the actual paint correction side of things with a willingness to drop a few extra hundred and change their washing habits to have the actual paint correction done. I never turn money away, but I am always honest in that I do explain what the fillers do compared to an actual paint correction. A lot around here are OK with the fillers. One thing I never do is to apply a filling type of glaze with a wool pad. I always use foam pads for these products so that when the fillers do wash away there isn`t unsightly wool pad trails all over the paint.



I certainly prefer to create a brilliant defect free finish by doing a multiple step paint correction but let`s not lose sight of why a professional does what he does, which is to make money. That is primary, for me anyway. I too have the type of customer who when I suggest that they change their washing habits to accommodate a true paint correction screams out "NEVER" and they opt for the machine glaze. This is why I have a very open mind, living each day outside of the box, offering a completely custom service that it dictated solely by the customer`s wants and needs. I`ve been getting pretty good word of mouth for it too. They say "This guy`s a freeking guru, he knows all there is to know about detailing!" I humbly disagree and tell them "I just know more than the average detailer, but it is my business to be an expert at what I do". There is no turnover rate when I am the entire workforce.



In the end there is definitely a place for a filling type product in my shop but it certainly isn`t the only product in my shop. I understand, relate to, and appreciate the OP`s intent of this thread. Thanks for posting it. TD

[togwt]

Great article. Im interested in seeing/reading on what steps YOU take to correctly do paint correction. I know it depends on how bad the paint really is but lets just assume it is the same as the swirls in the pics above. I am somewhat experienced but would consider myself very new to detailingcompared to alot of you guys on here.

Decontaminate (both above and sub-surface) the paintwork and then use a polish to remove scratches, bird stains, water marks, swirl marks, machine buffer marks, and holograms, cob- webbing and micro-marring and restore the paintwork to its original colour if it has faded. Once the paint surface is smooth and level it will enable proper light reflection.



Paint renovation detailers need to control the amount of paint being removed from a vehicle. An electronic paint thickness gauge (PTG) can be used to identify areas of thin paint or determine the depth of paint damage. With this knowledge, you`ll know what areas of the vehicle to avoid or where to tread gently when removing imperfections

1. Wash

2. Detailer’s clay (surface contaminants) and then light wash / rinse or

a) Chemical Paint Cleaner

3. Paint Decontamination (below surface contaminants) and then light wash with an alkaline (pH 9) wash concentrate

4. Dry paint surfaces

5. Tape protection (edges, emblems, panel edges, etc)

6. Check paint thickness (PTG) if not within ‘safe’ parameters use a Glaze and then proceed to 10

7. Test Panel Process, dependent upon results proceed to (a) ( b) or (c)



a) Compound

b) Polish

c) Wet-sand



8. Paint inspection wipe down

9. Final polish

10. Apply paint protection



These processes are very time consuming and many will not fund this amount of work, unless its a concourse or show car