KBM- Pad Priming and Supplemental Wetting Agents

[SVR]

Thanks for your reply to my post. There`s no doubt that I don`t know everything and some of what you put into the article I did not know fully

Even though I`ve been using a rotary for 10 years and 17 in the industry, there is still so much to learn, share and produce from these very technical discussions



Aint got a problem with anything any person posts on here, if I don`t know it, you or someone else will teach me it. There is so much science and art to machine polishing and I dare say, we have not seen the very best power tools, products and technique in this part of detailing yet. Nowhere near. I used a PC 7424 in america last year with excellent results

though when applying LSP`s at speed 1, my makita 6030 is better. It runs at 10,000 OPM at its highest speed so can still correct



As for orange peel removal, its the type of pad, how worn it is and the product used

The speed with the rotary (makita 9227 or Festool Shinex) is between 1200 and 1500 for peel removal. its not the rpm speed that works, its the speed of the arm movement. its alot more than 1 inch per second which is the common speed for correction



And so far, there are only two products that allow us to do it and they are both single polish systems, not strictly compounds and have the viscosity of runny thickened cream, not thick gluggy compound.



Anyhow, I really hope we can start some more technical discussions as thats what I love the most because I can increase my knowledge



P.S. I wonder how technique may change with the paramagnetic and powdered paints, if at all

[Accumulator]

Kevin Brown- Meguiar`s G110, huh? :think: Should I have to do a serious correction again any time soon (which hopefully won`t happen ) I`ll have to revisit the SurBuf/M105 combo.

[Kevin Brown]

To be clear, the Surbuf excels at leveling, or minimizing the peaks and valleys created by scratching and sanding.



For defect removal throughout a typical painted panel, meaning one that has texture, the Meguiar`s DA Microfiber Discs are better able to gloss up all of the nuances of the surface. In other words, the microfiber material is more pliable, and can easily squish and contort, thus enabling the abrasive in the buffing liquid to accomplish polishing.



Both are great. Side-by-side on a typical panel, you will see a bit more accurate reflection on the Surbuf side, so it is eliminating "orange peel" to a small degree.



The DA Microfiber Disc side will feature more clarity, and on dark colored, clear coated paints, the colors will look darker, the metallics more sparkly. This is because the whitish haze caused by scratches in the clear is eliminated.

[SVR]

cant wait to use the surbufs on a rotary with xpert ultra 1000 single polish on some test panels and see if I can do same or better orange peel reduction than wool

[Accumulator]

To be clear, the Surbuf excels at leveling, or minimizing the peaks and valleys created by scratching and sanding.



For defect removal throughout a typical painted panel, meaning one that has texture, the Meguiar`s DA Microfiber Discs are better able to gloss up all of the nuances of the surface....

Yeah, copy that (the distinction between "leveling" and "polishing" ).

...on a typical panel, you will see a bit more accurate reflection on the Surbuf side, so it is eliminating "orange peel" to a small degree...

Now the *orange peel reduction" *is* news to me, wouldn`t have thunk it, so thanks for the info.

[Accumulator]

cant wait to use the surbufs on a rotary...

Watch that the SurBuf "fingers" don`t flop-and-lie-over too much (via rotary).

[Kevin Brown]

The whole pad priming and supplemental wetting agent deal on autopia kind of snuck onto the scene. A guy on TID forum recently asked for some tips on how to use M105/M205 with a rotary.



I pointed him to this October 2008 thread about the rotary:



http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-det...l-no-luck.html





This October 2008 thread offered up a procedure for the D/A that would allow it to deliver rotary-like defect removal capability:



http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-det...t-my-poin.html





I believe that these two threads showed the power of pad priming and supplemental wetting agents, and a lot of guys gave these methods a try for the first time after reading these threads.



October 2008 was an exciting time for me on autopia...

my bags were packed in case things went awry...

[Accumulator]

Kevin Brown- Hey, thanks for those links. It was interesting to revisit those two threads, for a number of reasons.

[Kevin Brown]

To maximize cutting and finishing potential of the Meguiar`s DA Microfiber discs, I cut down larger plate to better fit the discs. Well, I think it`s better. :



Cut down backing plates work very well for foam pads, too.



To mechanically optimize the DA Discs, the pad must be supported to the outer edge. Since Meguiar`s does not currently offer a backing plate exactly the same diameter, I cut down a Meguiar`s W68DA plate to the same size. It cuts very easy- a pair of scissors will work.



I used a carpet razor knife to cut these plates, then sanded the edges using 80 grit and then 150 grit sandpaper. The studs were chucked in a handheld electric drill, and I pushed the knife into the foam as the plate was spinning. Then, I sanded in the same manner. Make sure to wear eye protection!



This is the Meguiar`s W68DA, backside shot:





This is the Meguiar`s W68DA, face shot:





Notice that the Velcro® does not cover the entire plate.

It was designed for the 2.0 Soft Buff pads.

I cut the pad down to within a couple millimeters of the Velcro®.



The cut down version is set atop the uncut version:





This is how it looks once the backing plate is mounted to the disc:





This is the recommended W67DA set atop the cut down W68DA:

...A stiffer plate delivers maximum cut, but they`re a bit harder to cut down.

I used a Mirka 106GG because I had some in stock, and they have proven to be bulletproof for me:



Mirka 106GG:





The cut down version set atop the uncut version:





This is how it looks once the backing plate is mounted to the disc:







Obviously, if you use the stiff plate, you`ll need to be careful on curved surfaces. The W68DA is soft, so even it it happened to contact a surface accidentally, damage potential would be comparatively low.



But!- for leveling, severe defect removal, for defect or sanding mark removal next to body trim, etc., and final polishing, the discs have delivered much better results for me when they are supported to the outer edge. My best guess would be somewhere in the 30% improved range for cutting potential, and an immeasurable amount for finish polishing.



Good luck!

[gmblack3]

Great info as always KB!

[Bill D]

Another great nugget of info from Mr. Brown. :xyxthumbs. I wonder if Meg`s will be on its way to releasing more plates exactly in those sizes. I`d forward this thread to their R&D team.

[C. Charles Hahn]

Another great nugget of info from Mr. Brown. :xyxthumbs. I wonder if Meg`s will be on its way to releasing more plates exactly in those sizes. I`d forward this thread to their R&D team.

Considering he`s in contact with Jason Rose on a regular basis, I`m betting this nugget has already been passed along....