polish defined?

[Bluedog]

i personaly feel terrible for those guys who were involved with the testing and that website. that site was made out of pure dedication and love for car detailing. whats wrong with that? those guys should have gotten a heck of alot more credit even if their results dont match up to everyones preferences 100%.

[truvette]

I used to think detailing was something fun but recently I`ve been losing interest because of all the flaming towards each and every product. What is comes down to is that we`re shining up a piece of metal with paint on it; there are more important things to worry about in life rather than threatening a working man at his home which happens to be the residence of his wife and kids. How do you think the kids feel seeing their father stressed out because of threatening messages at the front door?? It`s pretty ridiculous how people fight over different formulations and which one is better...in the end our cars shine and they do it better than most people driving on the road today. Thats they only thing we have to worry about here, the fact that we all have clean, shiny cars. Personally, I`m tired of seeing people fight over acrylic/polymer sealants and which wax is better than the other...its just a car for crying out loud! Have fun driving it and stop worrying about which product is going to give you a little bit more of an indistinguishable shine that not even the most average person would recognize. For example, when I detail my car, my neighbor (who doesn`t know squat about detailing) always comments on how good my car looks and he admires the fact that I take good care of it. Do you think he knows the difference between Klasse, Zaino, Blitz, or Meguiar`s? NO! Do you think he cares?? NO! In the end I would say all he can judge is that the car shines and it does it damn well. So I think it is time for people to stop worrying about what everyone else is using and to just move on. Use what works best for you and use it proudly.

[JonB]

It is definitely true that threatening someone physically over their opinions is way over the line. However I think maybe you miss the point of why WE are HERE... Maybe I should focus even more to MY reasons for being here and I think it can be inferred that at least some of the others here will agree.



I am here to learn about detailing. What works well, what doesn`t. How different products are used best and for what application. What products and techniques yeild the best result and what may lead to disaster. Whats new and hot. I enjoy reading and posting and, I think, that at this point I might actually have some things to contribute. I have done much testing on my own with different products and sharing my results with others may make it easier for someone else looking for similar results. Opinions are just that... We all have them and we all know that they can differ. I also think that many of us here are "obsessed", OCD, buffing bonkers, or just plain addicted to tinkering with detailing and car stuff. I have seen some heated discussions over different products, but rarely have I seen those discussions turn ugly. Often I think they are funny. If what I saw was boring or distasteful I moved on to other posts. These passionate discussions will sometimes occur. So what... It usually just makes me want to go out and test for myself. Some of the results are almost indistiguishable to me, whereas they are like night and day with others. Last I looked, this is what America is all about. The freedom to agree or disagree with one another. There may even be some people here that may have some financial interests in pushing certain products. So what, the discussions root out the good and the bad.



I looked at the waxtest site and thought that it was interesting that their results could be so different from the results that our members seemed to be getting. I also felt that perhaps their "scientific method" was somewhat lacking. It would have been better for me if their testing methods and observation methods were truly scientific. I don`t even know if that is possible. I found some of their "comments" to be weird and I don`t think that durability was included as an "issue". Their site became the butt of some sarcastic posts here. I don`t think these innocuous posts even came close to crossing any lines. If there were some individuals who complained anonymously via email, so what. The specific threats that are mentioned however were totally unwarranted and definitely crosses the line! I sincerely hope that they don`t back down from their duty to report this to the proper authorities and I hope that it doesn`t discourage them from going forward with their experimentation on the web site. Maybe they will get it right eventually and it will be a benefit to everyone...



H (Damn, now I have to go wet sand the cars to work off some of this anxiety!) :bounce

[offcenter]

Way to go bigboyhf :up

[Langley Interior Car Kare]

i see what your saying about detailing as compared to life`s "bigger" problems....that is always true about any hobby/website.....but if we always have that outlook...then who the heck is gonna say anything about anything....i could answer every thread by saying........EF clear pearl or Meguiars FI...whats the difference..people are starving in this country....and that would be the end of any and all discussions about anything.....like i said i see what your saying...but.......the whole purpose of the site..like bigboy was saying...is to get some knowledge...try some products....and then have debates...discussions...whatever you want to call it about what you experienced with those products.....i dont use Klasse...i like Zaino stuff...but i tell u what...if someone gave me some Klasse...you can bet your butt that i would read thru the threads...and put it on my damn car!.because i know that its one of the best products out there.....how do i know.....



by reading post where people "argue" about the pros/cons of it.....so its not that i think anything that was done to any people at that site was in any way acceptable......but that doesnt mean that i cant put up a post saying....i dont like Blitz or whatever.....

[imported_BretFraz]

Long time lurker, first time poster.



I`ve been following the waxtest "saga" for several days. I`ve communicated briefly with them. And I am very disappointed to hear that they received threats and worse from some sick and twisted people who can`t seem to get over the comments the waxtest team made about some products. Considering all we`ve been thru since 9-11, you`d think folks would mellow out and refocus their priorities in life. But for some the priorities seem to be continuation of the mayhem and terror.



We are all victimized by the actions of those who attacked the waxtest folks. Many of us consider ourselves car care enthusiasts and by association we are involved.



I`ve read all the posts in here about this issue. And the thing that has disappointed me about the posters in here is that many have dissed the waxtest findings, the efforts, and the opinions, but no one (NO ONE) has offered a better solution or system.



There are some talented and knowledgeable people that hang out in Autopia Forums. Why haven`t you put together a team and attempt the same thing? There have been several disparaging comments about the lack of scientific methodology. Well, why not apply some of your expertise in methodology and offer a superior product test?



I know it`s easy to sit back and post whatever we feel like with the knowledge that we are safe from recrimination or reprisal. But isn`t it time for the "experts" to put their money where their mouth is and attempt to raise the bar?

[YoSteve]

So yeah, it was the real guy. I e-mailed him and he told me, so I was mistaken.



I give this guy a lot of credit for putting up with crap. We do a lot of testing in my department at work and what we get is what we get, despite how it normally performs.



Rather than ostracizing the guy we should start a thread and give him tips.



Steve

[Langley Interior Car Kare]

that the words...i was wrong appear here....and not infrequently....prove that this is the best detailing...car care site anywhere...anytime....ever....and we`re all very modest too!!!!!!!!!!

[JasonC8301]

You want some Klasse to try out??



I can hook you up with some of the AIO and SG.



Just gotta find some 4 oz. bottles.. I will be going to Genovese tomorrow or something and look for them.



Jason

[truvette]

bigboy--



I didn`t mean to offend anyone here. My point was that a hobby/interest gets out of hand when personal threats start getting made. Sure, I love discussions and debates about certain products because I feel that it keeps this board running. When it becomes necessary that the police have to be called out to resolve a dispute, then it is time to set aside our hobby and realize to stop the flaming. Just wanted to clarify...

[rstype]

"Thank you to everyone who has been so supportive and helpful during the past couple of days. We thought we`d give you a brief update.

We have decided to continue with the tests, although two of our testers have left us. We are also working on getting some non-detail-type people involved in the tests to serve as additional judges.



Due to some business requirements, we will be traveling over the next couple of days. We will work on our updates during that time, and the next time you see us "live", the site will have a new look and feel, much more information, more pictures, and more detail about our testing methods.



Thank you again for visiting us, we should be live again by the end of the week.



-Sincerely,

The Guys @ thewaxtest.com"

[wchen]

We will be back in business shortly. We have regrouped, identified the person that was causing our troubles, and are now ready to resume publishing the results from our ongoing wax tests.

We are very sorry for any inconvenience we might have caused you, and we`re so grateful that you continue to visit and send us kind words of support and encouragement.



We can hardly wait to have the site back up and running. Look for it very soon.

Thanks again to everyone.



-Sincerely,

The Guys @ thewaxtest.com

[ISLANDSBEST]

Here is my 2 cents on a factor which I believe may have been at least partially responsible for the reaction to waxtest report:

Some analysts are clearly objective and dispassionate. You can usually tell by their langauge. It is objective and scientific. Others are not so objective. You can tell, often, because you sense <em class=`bbc`>attitudes[/i] and <em class=`bbc`>emotional biases[/i] in their writting.

My problem with the waxtest is that I get this distinct impression of emotion and attitudes on the part of the writters. This immediately makes me suspicious of the writter. I want testers to be dispassionate. I think that often we react strongly (if unconsciously) when we sense that a writer has an undisclosed, but seemingly evident, biase or attitude.

[softoa]

Morning,

After reading some paragraphs, am I correct that to polish equals to clean and it also is the act of buffing for shining the car?

Then, I see products that are" all in one " advertized here---polish and sealants on the label. Does this mean it cleans and is a sealant, so you do not need too use a wax? It is a cleaner and a sealant all in one---saving you time? And then, one could just clean the cars with car wash soap, and use the cleaner/sealant say twice a year? thanks, softoa

[Todd@RUPES]

Morning,

After reading some paragraphs, am I correct that to polish equals to clean and it also is the act of buffing for shining the car?

Good morning!

Keep in mind that many products use different terms for the same thing, thus the words: polish, glaze, and wax can be used for different products. Always read the manufacturers directions and descriptions to make sure you are familiar with what the product is for.

In general, paint polishes are used to `clean` the paint or remove a small amount of paint in order to remove damage and increase the smoothness of the paint. Polishes create a flatter, more uniform surface that reflects light better. The majority of the shine comes from having paint that is free of micro scratches and damage.

-Some waxes and glazes are also called polishes, although they function differently.

Then, I see products that are" all in one " advertized here---polish and sealants on the label. Does this mean it cleans and is a sealant, so you do not need too use a wax? It is a cleaner and a sealant all in one---saving you time? And then, one could just clean the cars with car wash soap, and use the cleaner/sealant say twice a year? thanks, softoa

Waxes and polishes are different.

Waxes and sealants fall into a category known as `lsps` or Last Step Protectants. These are used to protect the finish, increase the shine, and provide a sacrificial barrier against the elements. The main goal of a LSP is to protect the paint.

All In One products are designed to polish the surface while leaving behind a sealant (or wax) to protect it. The amount of polishing action and the length of the protection is going to vary depending on the product used. Some AIO (All In One) products do a great job of polishing the paint but don`t last very long, where as some AIO`s do a mild job of polishing but have great durability. If you are specific in what qualities would appeal to you we could help you select the best AIO for you.

However, when you deal with AIO`s you are getting some level of compromise. While most AIO`s are extremely effective, they generally cannot achieve the same level of results as breaking polishing and protecting into two separate steps. In general (disclaimer) the best results are often achieved by polishing the paint to increase the shine then protecting it with a pure (non abrasive) wax or sealant. This is substantially more work.

I would recommend applying an AIO more frequently, about every three months. The best indicator for when it is time to replace the LSP comes from observation however. When the water no longer beads (after washing) as well or if the paint no longer feels slick, then it is a good time to replenish the LSP.

Hope this helps.

Todd