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  1. #16

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    Re: Gotta Love Winter...

    Some of the best winter cars I`ve ever had were RWD without ABS (but always with LSD and good winter tires). BUT...there`s zero question that such setups give less control than 4WD (or a good AWD system) with ABS (and of course, with proper winter tires).

    The ability to have the right power delivery/braking at each specific wheel simply can`t be beat; there are conditions (e.g., cornering or hard braking with right side tires on glare ice, left side ones on dry clean pavement) where nothing else can come close.

    Even subtle diffs can be critical; Subaru`s AWD behaves very differently from Audi`s, and the modern Audis are very different from my `93 (and not in a good way).

    It only takes one moment under the right conditions to change your life forever. If the dry-pavement compromises of winter tires bug you, consider that it`s better than being paralyzed or broke from a lawsuit.

    Simply must be in complete control of your vehicle at all times, period, zero exceptions. Yeah, another topic where I`m zero tolerance now that I`ve wised up.
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  2. #17

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    Re: Gotta Love Winter...

    Absolutly agree regarding staying in control. I`m not proud of running summer tires in the winter. I simply wasn`t the gear head I am today and didn`t know better. Looking back I am pretty surprised at how well I could control the vehicle despite being heavily handicapped by compromised tires and at the same time horrified at the risk I was taking.

    I owned a `93 Subaru Outback Wagon for a few years and didn`t find driving AWD in poor weather the mind-blowing experience I expected. Maybe I didn`t have a good set of tires, or maybe I expected too much. Who knows. I agree on the comment regarding the changes in Audi`s AWD system. I can understand why they use Haldex on the A/S/RS3 and the TT, but the new system they are starting to roll out on their vehicles with the longitudinal engines is disapointing to say the least.

  3. #18

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    Re: Gotta Love Winter...

    Desertnate- I`ve posted before about how my wife and I did side-by-side comparisons of a Subaru and an Audi, exact same tires (size/inflation, everything) and the Audi simply drove away while the Subie transferred power from one wheel to another but never got going. That was about the same vintage as your Outback too.

    Back when I started driving, my family were the only people we knew who always put four snowtires on every vehicle. Today it`s the same, "oh, I don`t need that because my SUV has a `snow` setting" ...yeah, good luck with that, stay away from me.

    We`ve had too many *wonderful* vehicles utterly ruined by [individuals] who weren`t in control of theirs.."gee, that can`t be fixed and I don`t want anything else so how you gonna rectify the situation?" Well, they don`t rectify it. How dare anybody subject us to that?!? And those were just no-injury wrecks, which could`ve been a lot worse.

    Again, I`m a reformed [jerk] when it comes to stuff like complete control; "there`s nothing worse than a reformed anything" and I qualify

  4. #19
    Wax Waster Ronkh's Avatar
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    Re: Gotta Love Winter...










    Formerly the "Best Detailer", now just Super Wax Waster Man. Not necessarily tactful, but normally right. It`s good to be da King !!!
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  5. #20
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    Re: Gotta Love Winter...

    As one of the resident LEOs here, I cannot agree with and emphasize enough everyone else`s comments about keeping control during foul - especially - winter weather. But really bugs me is when I handle a crash and the striking vehicle has tires that aren`t adequate enough for "ronk weather" (Thanks for the photos!) i.e. Sunny, dry, and 75, much less the usual mix of crap we get here in Southcentral PA in a given winter. Most of the folks had money to get new tires, but didn`t want to deal with the hassle or expense.

    As for AWD, we got our first Ford Interceptor Utility (Explorer base) in 2012. The first winter we had it, with our normal "most seasons" tires, we were less than impressed with it. The next winter, our mechanic was able to get snow tires for them (apparently they`re a hot commodity for the Interceptors). It snowed like the dickens then, and the cars performed flawlessly with the AWD and the snow tires. Keep in mind that we are keeping control of the vehicle!

    Nice timing for this conversation as we`re looking at a possible big storm this weekend. Look out Nizmo!

    Gordon
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  6. #21

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    Re: Gotta Love Winter...

    Quote Originally Posted by gordonjuan View Post
    As one of the resident LEOs here, I cannot agree with and emphasize enough everyone else`s comments about keeping control during foul - especially - winter weather. But really bugs me is when I handle a crash and the striking vehicle has tires that aren`t adequate enough for "ronk weather" (Thanks for the photos!) i.e. Sunny, dry, and 75, much less the usual mix of crap we get here in Southcentral PA in a given winter. Most of the folks had money to get new tires, but didn`t want to deal with the hassle or expense.

    As for AWD, we got our first Ford Interceptor Utility (Explorer base) in 2012. The first winter we had it, with our normal "most seasons" tires, we were less than impressed with it. The next winter, our mechanic was able to get snow tires for them (apparently they`re a hot commodity for the Interceptors). It snowed like the dickens then, and the cars performed flawlessly with the AWD and the snow tires. Keep in mind that we are keeping control of the vehicle!

    Nice timing for this conversation as we`re looking at a possible big storm this weekend. Look out Nizmo!

    Gordon
    Here any news about the new RWD based Explorer or RWD Taurus?

  7. #22

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    Re: Gotta Love Winter...

    gordonjuan- Glad to hear your Dept. is using snowtires, that`s not as common as I would`ve thought.

    And I bet you have some mixed emotions at those crash sites where the wrong tires obviously made things worse..."play stupid games, win stupid prizes" but you gotta help `em anyhow.

  8. #23

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    Re: Gotta Love Winter...

    Quote Originally Posted by gordonjuan View Post
    As for AWD, we got our first Ford Interceptor Utility (Explorer base) in 2012. The first winter we had it, with our normal "most seasons" tires, we were less than impressed with it. The next winter, our mechanic was able to get snow tires for them (apparently they`re a hot commodity for the Interceptors). It snowed like the dickens then, and the cars performed flawlessly with the AWD and the snow tires. Keep in mind that we are keeping control of the vehicle!
    I always wondered what LE departments did for their vehicles in regards to tires. How do the winter tires hold up to the wear-and-tear and high speeds? I could see them being a savior in the nasty weather and scary in the dry at higher speeds you might need to drive when responding to a call.

  9. #24
    Nizmo's Avatar
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    Re: Gotta Love Winter...

    Quote Originally Posted by gordonjuan View Post
    As one of the resident LEOs here, I cannot agree with and emphasize enough everyone else`s comments about keeping control during foul - especially - winter weather. But really bugs me is when I handle a crash and the striking vehicle has tires that aren`t adequate enough for "ronk weather" (Thanks for the photos!) i.e. Sunny, dry, and 75, much less the usual mix of crap we get here in Southcentral PA in a given winter. Most of the folks had money to get new tires, but didn`t want to deal with the hassle or expense.

    As for AWD, we got our first Ford Interceptor Utility (Explorer base) in 2012. The first winter we had it, with our normal "most seasons" tires, we were less than impressed with it. The next winter, our mechanic was able to get snow tires for them (apparently they`re a hot commodity for the Interceptors). It snowed like the dickens then, and the cars performed flawlessly with the AWD and the snow tires. Keep in mind that we are keeping control of the vehicle!

    Nice timing for this conversation as we`re looking at a possible big storm this weekend. Look out Nizmo!
    Always wondered how those new AWD Interceptors handled. Snow tires aren`t a big thing around here anymore, I know before I was born if they declared a snow emergency if you didn`t have snow tires you would be fined and/or removed from the road (atleast this was the case in parts of Maryland where I grew up).

    Gonna be an interesting commute this weekend for sure. They can`t quite figure out the snow amount we`re getting...
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  10. #25
    gordonjuan's Avatar
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    Re: Gotta Love Winter...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMeanGreen View Post
    Here any news about the new RWD based Explorer or RWD Taurus?
    I have not. I have heard about the hybrids that are coming in 2020 and supposedly blew everyone away at the Michigan State Police trials. Proven electric for acceleration? Yes please! I will say that for my agency, the AWD has served us well and we don`t have a real need for RWD. I can certainly understand any excitement about it. Sure make the EVOC classes more fun!

  11. #26
    gordonjuan's Avatar
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    Re: Gotta Love Winter...

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    gordonjuan- Glad to hear your Dept. is using snowtires, that`s not as common as I would`ve thought.

    And I bet you have some mixed emotions at those crash sites where the wrong tires obviously made things worse..."play stupid games, win stupid prizes" but you gotta help `em anyhow.
    Accumulator, that`s a very common - and apt - phrase I`ve been using for over decades.

  12. #27
    gordonjuan's Avatar
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    Re: Gotta Love Winter...

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertnate View Post
    I always wondered what LE departments did for their vehicles in regards to tires. How do the winter tires hold up to the wear-and-tear and high speeds? I could see them being a savior in the nasty weather and scary in the dry at higher speeds you might need to drive when responding to a call.
    We are a smaller town-type agency. We don`t often get to high speeds due to the nature of the terrain here. That being said, we`ve had no issues with them at those times. We have them on from Mid-November to Mid-March...and they are indeed fantastic in the foul weather.

  13. #28
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    Re: Gotta Love Winter...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizmo View Post
    Always wondered how those new AWD Interceptors handled. Snow tires aren`t a big thing around here anymore, I know before I was born if they declared a snow emergency if you didn`t have snow tires you would be fined and/or removed from the road (atleast this was the case in parts of Maryland where I grew up).

    Gonna be an interesting commute this weekend for sure. They can`t quite figure out the snow amount we`re getting...
    We`re in the same boat here. In the Susquehanna Valley, that usually means it`s going to be awful. Maybe it`s our "Farm Show week weather" a bit late this year. I`m keeping my fingers crossed.
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  14. #29
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    Re: Gotta Love Winter...

    Quote Originally Posted by gordonjuan View Post
    We`re in the same boat here. In the Susquehanna Valley, that usually means it`s going to be awful. Maybe it`s our "Farm Show week weather" a bit late this year. I`m keeping my fingers crossed.
    Yea I live in between two mountain ranges here in Fulton County so it can be a crapshoot as to how much snow we get. We either get dumped on where everybody else gets nothing, or vice versa. Seems our winter drought is over. Supposed to be 9* Sunday night! As much as I hate borrowing it, I might have to use gmas Jeep. That thing is a beast in the snow.

    Now having said that everybody`s probably wondering why I`m worried about getting a 4wd or snow tires when I could just use the Jeep. Honestly we`re trying to get her into assisted living, so I`m trying to be independent as far as relying on my own transportation. But that`s a subject I don`t want to think about right now...
    2017 VW Golf GTI 6 Speed Manual - 2015 Toyota Camry SE - 2009 Toyota Tacoma TRD

  15. #30
    Administrator Liz@Autopia's Avatar
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    Re: Gotta Love Winter...

    I always think it`s funny when people think Oregon just gets rain but not much snow. That`s true for Portland and the coast but elevation can make all the difference in the world. Crater Lake National park gets something like over 500 inches of snow on average a year. I definitely don`t miss driving conditions like this.

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