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  1. #31

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    Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    To me anything other than regular maintenance on a car with under 100k miles is unreasonable..
    I bet that "what we`re used to" factors in along with the love of the individual vehicle, get used to stuff needing fixed and it`s "normal", don`t have such worries and *that* is normal. Even one of my two Hondas had serious problems all the time!

    But at least there` s never anything that renders a vehicle INOP (probably because of our maintenance), just piddly stuff...or at least I catch the biggies before they get terminal.

    Eh, with us being retired, it can take a long time to rack up miles these days so the whole "experience for the mileage" thing doesn`t really apply to us...consider that despite my newest vehicle being an `08, half of `em have under ~22K.

    You mentioned how well Lexus has been for you- my wife and I both REALLY liked the original LS400 and then the LS30, but driving them was simply shocking...so, uhm....not Sport Sedan enough... that we quickly realized neither of us could drive such stuff. Had they offered a Hi-Po suspension/brake setup we would`ve loved `em.

    Quote Originally Posted by oneheadlite
    .. Yes, some people really are that clueless...
    I knee-jerk all snarky and think [crap] about people being "too dumb to live"...I just can`t imagine somebody relying on, and assuming the responsibility for, something as serious as a motor vehicle while being that ignorant about it. I mean, sheesh...when I met my wife she was far from a Car Person as I can imagine, but she *KNEW* everything she needed to know about her trusty (and RUSTY) ol` Mazda GLC and its maintenance was 100% covered. I mean, sheesh..it`s like appliances and [tools] and everything else, you just gotta know from your kit.

    Maybe that 745 owner is in the same boat we are- likes that particular vehicle/model and they just aren`t making the exact same thing any more so that one has to last forever.

    And yeah, over time the maintenance cost can easily exceed the original (new vehicle) price...I`m sure I`ve spent more than $35K on the Jag`s maintenance/etc. But with 6-figure cars getting commonplace that might change. I can`t imagine spending the cost of a new S8 on maintaining *anything*.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swanicyouth
    I don`t daily drive a BMW because they don`t make a truck & I need that for the winter here.
    Heh heh, at least you don`t have one of their SUVs/CUVs...in my area those are the official vehicles of [jerks].
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  2. #32
    Detailers Workshop The Driver's Avatar
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    Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.

    If you use OE parts, maintain everything ON SCHEDULE and change ALL fluids before the end of thier life cycle. You will almost never run into an issue. I have 5 European cars and have had ZERO major issues over the years. Parts on some have failed, but within the correct parameters. Coilpacks at 80K, Alternators around 100k etc. I`ve maintained them all pretty much flawlessly and again never had a major issue or been stranded.

    06 Volvo S60R 2.5T - 114k miles
    08 Audi B7 Avant 2.0T - 84K miles
    11 Bmw 328 Xi - 55k miles
    12 Merecedes C300 3.0 - 23k miles
    14 Audi C7 S7 40T - 22K miles
    Rupes 21 MK II, Rupes 15 MK II, Rupes 21, Rupes LHR75e, Rupes Ibrid-L, Rupes LH18ENS, Flex PE-14-2, Dodo Juice V1, Dewalt 749X
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  3. #33
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    Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.

    My thing with the German cars is having the nerve to sell a 4cylinder for upwards of $50k. That’s just insane. Kicking ideas around on my next car and really like a couple of German models, but absolutely will not pay that kind of money for a 4 banger- I don’t care how turbo’d out it is- and the 6’s get to be out of my price range.
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  4. #34
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    Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.

    Your paying for engineering, saftey, mpg and european driving experience. Imo, never buy a european new always cpo or used outright. Having friends in autobody I can 100% say european cars ARE SAFER. You might walk out of a crash from pretty much any car today but there will be a difference in the condition you exit and what ill effects are caused down the road.
    Rupes 21 MK II, Rupes 15 MK II, Rupes 21, Rupes LHR75e, Rupes Ibrid-L, Rupes LH18ENS, Flex PE-14-2, Dodo Juice V1, Dewalt 749X
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  5. #35

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    Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.

    The Driver- I dunno...had I not bought the A8/S8 new they`d probably not be in the same condition they`re in now. "It`s only original once" and all that, given the lengths I go to keeping `em that way. I`ve bought plenty of vehicles that were *almost* showroom new, but not one of them was as nice as it would`ve been had I owned it from the jump and I`ve never been able to *get* anything that nice either.

    But for *practical* or economic reasons, I agree completely!

    Concerning crashworthiness- Having been in a whole lotta crashes (most of `em were under controlled conditions/during training, but I`ve had a few near-checkout ones IRL too with full-size vehicles totaled out from under me), I prefer a body-on-frame when things go seriously sideways. Besides liking the B-o-F for the ability to stay (somewhat) mobile and the protection to the occupants, they`ve *never* been able to fix a seriously damaged unibody vehicle to my satisfaction; once certain things get tweaked the vehicle just never feels the same even when the specs say it should.

    jrock645- It seems that your "won`t pay that for a 4" isn`t all that uncommon, especially among those who value engine sounds being a certain way. While I generally prefer a large engine with at least 8 cylinders, I *really* only care how it drives (throttle response, midrange torque, etc.).
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  6. #36
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    Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    jrock645- It seems that your "won`t pay that for a 4" isn`t all that uncommon, especially among those who value engine sounds being a certain way. While I generally prefer a large engine with at least 8 cylinders, I *really* only care how it drives (throttle response, midrange torque, etc.).
    Don`t forget durability too. There are a lot of 4`s running around now pushing well over 100hp/liter. Whoever is in the turbo and cylinder head rebuilding business is going to be doing well for themselves.

    I love how a turbo`d car drives, the boost surge is awesome (well, almost as awesome as pure electric) but they do nothing for reliability.
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  7. #37

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    Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.

    Dan- Heh heh, my pal Bob (of the old Jag MKII) is just like you and has kept a 911 Turbo of some kind in his garage since forever. *I* OTOH, utterly despise the "turbo surge" (let alone turbo LAG), preferring a flat (and fat) torque curve where it`s very linear. Different strokes and all that...

    Guess that "boosted to within an inch of its life" thing may catch up to `em...wonder if they`re durable *IF* treated/maintained right.
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  8. #38
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    Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    The Driver- I dunno...had I not bought the A8/S8 new they`d probably not be in the same condition they`re in now. "It`s only original once" and all that, given the lengths I go to keeping `em that way. I`ve bought plenty of vehicles that were *almost* showroom new, but not one of them was as nice as it would`ve been had I owned it from the jump and I`ve never been able to *get* anything that nice either.

    But for *practical* or economic reasons, I agree completely!

    Concerning crashworthiness- Having been in a whole lotta crashes (most of `em were under controlled conditions/during training, but I`ve had a few near-checkout ones IRL too with full-size vehicles totaled out from under me), I prefer a body-on-frame when things go seriously sideways. Besides liking the B-o-F for the ability to stay (somewhat) mobile and the protection to the occupants, they`ve *never* been able to fix a seriously damaged unibody vehicle to my satisfaction; once certain things get tweaked the vehicle just never feels the same even when the specs say it should.

    jrock645- It seems that your "won`t pay that for a 4" isn`t all that uncommon, especially among those who value engine sounds being a certain way. While I generally prefer a large engine with at least 8 cylinders, I *really* only care how it drives (throttle response, midrange torque, etc.).

    Its not about HP for me. Next car will be a 6 because theyre so much smoother than a 4. Smoother ride, smoother acceleration. And they don’t whine and grind when you have to punch it, they just purr along. Sadly, my options are dwindling as more and more car makers switch to turbo 4’s and drop 6’s to boost their MPG statistics.
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  9. #39
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    Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Dan- Heh heh, my pal Bob (of the old Jag MKII) is just like you and has kept a 911 Turbo of some kind in his garage since forever. *I* OTOH, utterly despise the "turbo surge" (let alone turbo LAG), preferring a flat (and fat) torque curve where it`s very linear. Different strokes and all that...

    Guess that "boosted to within an inch of its life" thing may catch up to `em...wonder if they`re durable *IF* treated/maintained right.
    I know your disdain for a lack of responsiveness! Your DBW threads for one! Have you driven any pure electric cars yet? Very fun and ZERO lag. I have a Leaf, which is bottom of the barrel, but it is a hoot to drive because it has gobs of torque and no lag whatsoever.
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  10. #40

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    Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.

    Dan- No, I *haven`t* driven an electric. I agree that they have a lot to offer and I`m absolutely *NOT* in the "internal combustion only" camp. But with all the electric cars featuring...technology...that I won`t have, I doubt that an electric is in my future. Heh heh, the `08 Crown Vic is quite possibly ("probably" even?) the latest model-year vehicle we`ll ever own...

    Oh, and I also agree with you on the smoothness issue (my Jag`s V12..).

    Heh heh, sounds like I made an impression with my DBW tales of woe! At least the DBW in the Crown Vic is OK...but we`ll see how it is when (heh heh, not "if" ) I finally soup it up...which gives me another reason to keep putting that off (IME nothing messes up a reliable stock vehicle quite like good intentions and an open checkbook ).
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  11. #41

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    Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    I have a Leaf, which is bottom of the barrel, but it is a hoot to drive because it has gobs of torque and no lag whatsoever.
    Ya know...I bet that`s a gonna be a good overall ownership experience, bottom of barrel or not. How long do you plan to keep it?
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  12. #42
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    Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Dan- No, I *haven`t* driven an electric. I agree that they have a lot to offer and I`m absolutely *NOT* in the "internal combustion only" camp. But with all the electric cars featuring...technology...that I won`t have, I doubt that an electric is in my future. Heh heh, the `08 Crown Vic is quite possibly ("probably" even?) the latest model-year vehicle we`ll ever own...

    Oh, and I also agree with you on the smoothness issue (my Jag`s V12..).

    Heh heh, sounds like I made an impression with my DBW tales of woe! At least the DBW in the Crown Vic is OK...but we`ll see how it is when (heh heh, not "if" ) I finally soup it up...which gives me another reason to keep putting that off (IME nothing messes up a reliable stock vehicle quite like good intentions and an open checkbook ).
    That smoothness and gobs of torque is what I love about electric. One of the reasons I like the leaf is that is is just a plain car with a few extra do-dads. I don`t even lilke NAV in a car, my phone is much better. I have to have "normal" AC controls too, TBH I don`t even like the kind with a thermostat, its always blowing hot air when I want cold and the cold air when I want hot, etc.

    No plans for the Leaf really, only really bought it because they were giving them away, I got something like 30% off MSRP, plus the federal tax credit, made it almost as cheap as its gas brother, the Versa. Funny thing is my wife thought I was crazy for getting it, now she has claimed it as hers.

    Maybe there will be conversion kits soon enough? An electric Crown Vic would be fun.
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  13. #43
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    Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.

    I`m going through the German car pain as I type. My 2010 335 xDrive is at 90,000 miles. Time for some serious maintenance. About $2000 in parts and labor for needed repairs at my indy shop (and about a 1000 in additional go fast goodies) are about to be installed.

    If I was shopping for a new car...I would probably go American. BUT, there is nothing new on the road that drives like the older german cars. To me, all the new 3 series, C classes, a4`s feel the same as a Camry or Accord. I`m sure Porsche`s or the new Alfa`s are nice, but they are pricey. My e90 feels more solid, drives better and once all the repairs and goodies are installed, will keep up with any of them. The switch from hydraulic to electric steering completely changed the characteristics of a car. We won`t discuss the availability of manual transmissions.

    Having to spend 3,000 - 4,000 for major repairs once every 2 - 3 years and keeping up with regular maintenance is less than having car payments on a new entry level European car. To get my daily driver today would be a 50k+ BMW.

    If cars aren`t important to you...it is hard to justify spending anything more than a car payment a month, and there is nothing wrong with that. I (like most of us here) like cars, and I`m willing to pay to keep them properly maintained and running. They don`t make them like they used too.
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  14. #44

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    Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by jatleson View Post
    I`m going through the German car pain as I type. My 2010 335 xDrive is at 90,000 miles. Time for some serious maintenance. About $2000 in parts and labor for needed repairs at my indy shop (and about a 1000 in additional go fast goodies) are about to be installed.

    If I was shopping for a new car...I would probably go American. BUT, there is nothing new on the road that drives like the older german cars. To me, all the new 3 series, C classes, a4`s feel the same as a Camry or Accord. I`m sure Porsche`s or the new Alfa`s are nice, but they are pricey. My e90 feels more solid, drives better and once all the repairs and goodies are installed, will keep up with any of them. The switch from hydraulic to electric steering completely changed the characteristics of a car. We won`t discuss the availability of manual transmissions.

    Having to spend 3,000 - 4,000 for major repairs once every 2 - 3 years and keeping up with regular maintenance is less than having car payments on a new entry level European car. To get my daily driver today would be a 50k+ BMW.

    If cars aren`t important to you...it is hard to justify spending anything more than a car payment a month, and there is nothing wrong with that. I (like most of us here) like cars, and I`m willing to pay to keep them properly maintained and running. They don`t make them like they used too.
    This is kinda where I`m at. Just keep paying to maintain and nothing really seems to tick enough boxes for me to warrant a switch.

    I daily an E91 and love the way it drives. No weird creaks, rattles, etc. Rides smooth enough. Lots of space. X-drive means grip in the snowy months here too.

    I`ve been in newer American cars... they`re still just so far behind the Germans in build quality. Americans like cheap things though. It`s a very different market from Europe.
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  15. #45

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    Re: RANT:My Love and Hate of German cars.

    Full disclamer - I have not read every response on this thread just short of the OP.

    To sum it up - GREAT to own During Warranty.
    If you keep it outside that, it boils down to 2 things. Wrench yourself or pay through the nose with a Indy. Parts+Labor IMO make it a non keeper if you ~don`t wrench~ yourself...

    These days, with quite bit of mechanical things that you MAY DIY outside of warranty, you`re still looking for a least a Bejamin and a 1/2 to have a INDY hook up his comp, just do finish that battery change, etc...

    Just like in the recent thread about tires and longevity, IMO, modern cars are just 4 year keepers....well, at least with the brands that are in my fleet..
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