Gonna buy new Sled. Need opinions on naturally-aspirated engines vs turbos

[Stokdgs]

OpenRoad -
Thanks for your reply - too bad we missed you guys..
I can relate to what moved you away.. I have been riffed out of 2 - almost-made-it-to-20-years careers..

Loved the styling descriptions - "well worn bar of soap" or "bathtub"

Looks like most 2017 models of every marque are full of sharp lines, etc..
However, most have some sort of mouth/beak thing going on that you either love or hate...
Been a few years of constant Polarizing car design out there..

I believe the nicest most Normal Looking shape to me these days is the new Jaguar XE...
Your mileage may differ.....
Dan F

[TheMeanGreen]

It makes me so happy to see so many BMW fans in one place, that actually understand the brand.

[Stokdgs]

It makes me so happy to see so many BMW fans in one place, that actually understand the brand.

YES !!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have driven a lot of different cars but none drive, ride, and feel, like the Bimmers do...

Even back to the E36 Platforms that our esteemed Brother RonK loves, they all had Killer Projector Lights that really shined way down the road, so you could see really well at night... Love that part a lot..

For my needs, there is no better Road Trip car than these... Perfect Sport Seats, etc...
Dan F

[Ronkh]

YES !!!!!

I have driven a lot of different cars but none drive, ride, and feel, like the Bimmers do...

Even back to the E36 Platforms that our esteemed Brother RonK loves, they all had Killer Projector Lights that really shined way down the road, so you could see really well at night... Love that part a lot..
Dan F

I`ve had something like 11+ in my driveway, from e36, to e60, to e93, + a 2 series

[TheMeanGreen]

I currently work in the back of a car dealership (college kid), and I have experienced the top of the line headlights (except BMW`s LED), up until about 2014 model year Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Ford, Jaguar, and Land Rover. Comparing year for year, the BMW`s are ALWAYS the best. Quick warmup, super quick and crisp low-high-low flashing, crisp projection, efficient throw, and the best dynamic lighting. We even had a Rolls Royce Wraith, and a couple of modern 7er`s, the 7er`s literally outshined the Rolls, which is weird because the Rolls uses BMW equipment. As far as driving, the only cars I like taking on road trips are the BMW`s, yeah they may be a little harsh at highway cruising speeds and around town, but when they begin to be pushed and driven spiritedly, they respond like no other. No other car competing or high below the particular BMW even comes close. And we all know that BMW has designed some premature wear compared to other cars, but there is so much engineering in them. If
all BM`s came with aluminum instead of plastic water pump impellers, there would be no need for a new BMW. Even more of their magic comes alive when they become modified for longevity.


I just love BMW, anything up until the e9x M3`s. But then again, BMW keeps pushing out Engines of the Year(s). The engines may not be as exciting as they once were, but holly cow, the chassis and transmissions… just keep getting better.

[Ronkh]

Not a fan of 7`s
only 6 that`s decent is the drop top.

Just my .02

[TheMeanGreen]

Not a fan of 7`s
only 6 that`s decent is the drop top.

Just my .02

7`s usually have the most issues, high mileage, they are the testing ground for all the new hardware and software that makes its way into lesser models. I`ll tell you what though, a Mineral White 750Li, 8sp ZF, Congiac Leather, all the bells and whistles except for LED head lights (the aftermarket has some better products), and some Dinan goodies, has my name all over it, if income was ridiculously disposable. That`s a pipe dream though. The 6er, I`d buy an e63 version, drop a worked Coyote motor in, track prep it, and call it a day. As far as driving position in big coupes go, it`s the best.

[Ronkh]

I live in FL.

7 means you`re that much closer to heaven.

[TheMeanGreen]

I live in FL.

7 means you`re that much closer to heaven.

In Dallas, the equivalent is the Lexus LS and in some cases the S-Class.

[Stokdgs]

Oh yeah, forgot about Steve Dinan...

He has his shop in Morgan Hill, CA., about 2 hour drive from where I live...

Yeah, this man AND Alpina out of Germany have both taken BMW`s to incredible levels that are just unbelieveable !!!

If you have the right BMW and can loan it to them for a few weeks to a month or so, they will do R&D of their products on it and for your trouble, you get to keep them!! And yes, all Dinan products are warranted from the Factory... Dinan, Leader in BMW Performance Parts and Upgrades Dinan Development Car Program

Here one of his works - 527HP - 407Ftlbs Torque -- 2009 BMW M3 Dinan S3-R Coupe WBSWD93569P361160 for sale in Seattle Bellevue WA

I understand Steve Dinan went on to work with Chip Ganassi Racing now so guess who is going to be winning really good now...

Every now and then I see a BMW Alpina B7 for sale, - wow just incredibly beautiful cars... You can buy them at the Bimmer Dealership... Or here -- BMW 7 Series 2011 Alpina B7 Li Nav Sunroof Hud DRV Asst Camera | eBay

Water pumps - there has been a great electric aluminum water pump out there for several years now... I can`t remember the name but its been a really good replacement of that stock plastic impeller pump..
If you have a Roundel Magazine handy, they advertise it in there every month for years...
Dan F

[TheMeanGreen]

Oh yeah, forgot about Steve Dinan...

He has his shop in Morgan Hill, CA., about 2 hour drive from where I live...

Yeah, this man AND Alpina out of Germany have both taken BMW`s to incredible levels that are just unbelieveable !!!

If you have the right BMW and can loan it to them for a few weeks to a month or so, they will do R&D of their products on it and for your trouble, you get to keep them!! And yes, all Dinan products are warranted from the Factory... Dinan, Leader in BMW Performance Parts and Upgrades Dinan Development Car Program

Here one of his works - 527HP - 407Ftlbs Torque -- 2009 BMW M3 Dinan S3-R Coupe WBSWD93569P361160 for sale in Seattle Bellevue WA

I understand Steve Dinan went on to work with Chip Ganassi Racing now so guess who is going to be winning really good now...

Every now and then I see a BMW Alpina B7 for sale, - wow just incredibly beautiful cars... You can buy them at the Bimmer Dealership...

Water pumps - there has been a great electric aluminum water pump out there for several years now... I can`t remember the name but its been a really good replacement of that stock plastic impeller pump..
If you have a Roundel Magazine handy, they advertise it in there every month for years...
Dan F

VAC Motorsports and Turner Motorsport are two BMW focused companies that you forgot. I`d take a VAC S65 stroker over the Dinan everyday. Dinans tunes are a bit conservative and don`t use the full advantage of some of the engines, for public supply of course (Public cam profiles are a bit tame). (A good set of cams with matching valve train will spin the S65B4x close to 9k, I`m so in love with that thought.

And EVERY Alpina is a gorgeous car

[OpenRoad]

Any way this thread can be more than a BMW Fanboy page? After comparing even more cars, with my paltry knowledge of engine designs (downright pitiful, Ya``)...I AM beginning to lose more of my fear of turbos, and have found more stuff about forced air systems at high elevations. It looks like this may end up being a war between Bimmer & Merc, but I haven`t entirely ruled out a couple future "supercharger cars". I also like the Jag XE or XF, but they are NOT coupes. Don`t have a clue as to who makes the superchargers....and the engines run "small". (Somewhat determined to buy a minimum of a 3L 6 cyl coupe).

Soooo...German Turbo question: Who makes the turbos for BMW & Merc? Are they made by the same manufacturer? Do the turbos vary between the cheaper models, and higher-end cars? Different OEM parts? This may be a dumb question for many of Y`all, but can anyone (not, a car salesman) describe how "Inline turbos" are different from "bi-turbos"? I though the "bi`s" were comprised of one singular turbo with forced air coming in at TWO points on the single turbo? (Please don`t laugh...?). Turbos any less problematic in BMW than Merc, with high mileage?

TheMeanGreen, you have had some very good input....Thanks.

Today, after examining a 2017 AMG styled (NOT the real deal, of course) C Class coupe, I feel further drawn to Merc, at least for exterior/interior design elements (did not drive the car, motor waay too doggy). Still waiting.... to see/drive an AMG C 63 coupe. Sadly, the fancier grill of much cheaper C Class coupe, looks nicer than the Plain Jane nose of the real AMG, with their signature boring grill.

I don`t mean to offend, but Bimmers still have a long ways to go to make a nice looking moderately-priced coupe? Styling and "appointments" also count, as well a "drivability"?

[Stokdgs]

OpenRoad -
Oh come on now, this is not a BMW Fanboy page at all...
There are just 3 of us talking about some of the ones we have owned in the PAST...

When I was Detailing out of a German Car Repair Shop, I never saw Turbo problems with any of the Bimmers that came in..
Again, any turbo will more likely have issues now or later if the oil is not changed frequently..

Whatever vehicle you end up choosing, I would want to see Extensive Maintenance Records, read each one of them, and hopefully find one that has had great Over-Maintenance, and then That part is checked off your list..

Regarding "...... nice looking moderately-priced coupe......" which year/s are you looking at then ?
Dan F

[TheMeanGreen]

Any way this thread can be more than a BMW Fanboy page? After comparing even more cars, with my paltry knowledge of engine designs (downright pitiful, Ya``)...I AM beginning to lose more of my fear of turbos, and have found more stuff about forced air systems at high elevations. It looks like this may end up being a war between Bimmer & Merc, but I haven`t entirely ruled out a couple future "supercharger cars". I also like the Jag XE or XF, but they are NOT coupes. Don`t have a clue as to who makes the superchargers....and the engines run "small". (Somewhat determined to buy a minimum of a 3L 6 cyl coupe).

Soooo...German Turbo question: Who makes the turbos for BMW & Merc? Are they made by the same manufacturer? Do the turbos vary between the cheaper models, and higher-end cars? Different OEM parts? This may be a dumb question for many of Y`all, but can anyone (not, a car salesman) describe how "Inline turbos" are different from "bi-turbos"? I though the "bi`s" were comprised of one singular turbo with forced air coming in at TWO points on the single turbo? (Please don`t laugh...?). Turbos any less problematic in BMW than Merc, with high mileage?

TheMeanGreen, you have had some very good input....Thanks.

Today, after examining a 2017 AMG styled (NOT the real deal, of course) C Class coupe, I feel further drawn to Merc, at least for exterior/interior design elements (did not drive the car, motor waay too doggy). Still waiting.... to see/drive an AMG C 63 coupe. Sadly, the fancier grill of much cheaper C Class coupe, looks nicer than the Plain Jane nose of the real AMG, with their signature boring grill.

I don`t mean to offend, but Bimmers still have a long ways to go to make a nice looking moderately-priced coupe? Styling and "appointments" also count, as well a "drivability"?

Current year to year comparison of Merc to BMW, the Merc`s win the styling contest, they look more elegant. Except BMW`s X5/X6, they look ridiculously angry (M format). When WE, as in these forum guys, talk about BMW`s, there is a 95% chance that we are thinking about mostly pre-2008 models, there are three or four post-2008 models that suit our fancy, but it is the old ones that steal our hearts.

The N20 is such a better engine compared to the M270/M274, it`s more linear but still has somewhat of a spool `punch`, rev`s better, sounds better, is more tuner friendly, responds better, I`d pick it 110% of the time. Plus the 8spd ZF is far superior to any transmission made by MBAG or torqueflite. The 8spd ZF is found in a multitude of different vehicles, in various forms. The 2er all the way up to Ram`s 1500, if I`m not mistaken there is some part of ZF`s box that FCA finishes so they can call it a torqueflite. Small engines are just the future and the present, automakers desperately strive for better fleet MPG sanctioned by determining bodies, once automakers turn their efficiency gaze to their bigger vehicles, the regression of `car` motor size will slow. Stats show that improving fleet MPG by the focus of bigger vehicles can create higher MPG scores, thus saving displacement.

As far as BMW`s turbos are concerned, they are basically the same between the majority of 4cyl and 6cyl engines; 4cyl and 6cyl`s run Mitsubishi units. The V8`s use their own blower`s, I forget the manu. I honestly do not know who the MB units are made by, simply because I am a BMW fan. When you drive that AMG, I hope that you wear your diapers, and have the car pointed straight. That 5.5L Bi-Turbo (M157) is an animal, and it pulls so strongly throughout the rev range.

Here`s some reading:

BMW TwinPower Turbo Engines Explained - autoevolution

BMW Technology Guide: Turbochargers

(I`m not selling anything or endorsing, these links are for research purposes)


Don`t rule out a 2015+ Mustang GT, sounds great and has a very playful personality solid . There is also the Lexus RCF, but it`s not in the same `league` and the Germans, even though they are competitor`s. Lexus just needs to improve chassis control and electronic safety programs, the stability programs don`t allow anyone to `play` with the cars `as` much. The RCF is a nice back to basics approach. You can be a complete loon in the Mustang.

[Accumulator]

Do people factor in the need to have a dealership/service facility that can be trusted to not mess the car up cosmetically? There are *NO* BMW-competent shops in my area that I`d trust with my vehicles and that`s one reason why I no longer have a M3 around.