Gonna buy new Sled. Need opinions on naturally-aspirated engines vs turbos

[MattPersman]

Z28 or z06 pick your passion both can put down lap times (since you want something that can corner)


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[jeepngli]

I love forced induction and while I`ve had many VWs I can tell you that they ain`t cheap to fix. So with refinement, comes price. The same Bosch and BorgWarner parts for the Audio cost more than the same ones for the VW, which aren`t cheap either. My supercharged mustang is cheaper to get parts for and while it is not as refined, it runs like a bat out of hell and is easier to fix. Just talking out loud.

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[rlmccarty2000]

Just get the new Mustang GT 350, if you can find a dealer that will sell you one at the MSRP.

[JVD]

Budget?

Where are you located?

And last... which modern turbo vehicles have you driven?

[TheMeanGreen]

BMW M2?

I own a MY16 M235i. Great car. Road fast and handles really well. If you want track use you can get the LSD option. Not much turbo lag. I threw on a catless downpipe and a bms stage 2 after my break in period and haven`t looked back.

M235i is a fantastic car, comparable to an e46 M3, arguably one of the best M car`s ever made.

[Ronkh]

M235i is a fantastic car, comparable to an e46 M3, arguably one of the best M car`s ever made.

Amen !!

[OpenRoad]

THANKS, ALL! Wow! I didn`t realize that I opened Pandoras Box,...and let Ronkh out too (no offense meant).

I have not driven any modern turbos (at least for very far). I largely worry about repair costs down the road, when/if the turbos fail. I do know that you are s`posed to warm `em up & cool `em down, though. My horseshoer (much previous with big/commerical construction vehicles & spends countless hours hauling a specialized trailer) DOES love his turbo-assisted Dodge Hemi. He has warned me to USE the turbos, to keep from building "oil deposits" within the turbos, which would require more service. I really dunno, having no experience with modern turbos. Have always stuck to the NA engines of the past.

I`m not really a "5 Liter Mustang GT" driver. Partly because I think these cars are Cop Bait (like my past RadarRed Jag droptop). A big-time-Bimmer-FanBoy-friend of mine now living in Naples, FL very recently drove a Mustang GT and was quite impressed. Great advice to rent a "modern turbo car" and turn it loose in the real world. `Course, the experience will likely depend on the particular vehicle rented? May be not totally comparable between brand new releases. "Newer" should be better, but I again...don`t know.

Interesting comments regarding elevations. Never thought of that being a factor before. Our "baseline" at our garage is 4,000 ft, and we often trek across elevations in excess of 9 - 10 K feet. I have not seen any lack of performance with my CTS-V though.

Stokdgs/Dan, You reallllly DO need to attend the early morning ascension of the balloons in Albuquerque. We haven`t been there for years, were still living near Seattle at the time. But it was Truly Spectacular!!! (Great post, too ).

Rides I have been considering so far are MercedesB 2017 AMG C63 (not really out yet,...at best still stuck in production, or on boats), 2017 Lexus LC 500 (no price yet, but likely over my affordability), and ...yes,...the CopBait Mustang. I spun a 16 Lexus RC F all over an abandoned warehouse site in El Paso, but I was not impressed with the weight distribution/handling (LC 500 has the same NA engine). I am spooky of all German cars, as I don`t want to spend my time in the shop (owned a Porsche 911 in the past too). Want the dependability of a Corolla, but a Rocket Sled with so much more.

Thanks, again, for the very useful comments. (Call me more confused than ever?).....

[Stokdgs]

Open Road -
The world is so small ----
I also lived near Seattle from 2002 - 2013; first in Bellevue (Newport Shores), and then in Issaquah.. Perhaps I knew you guys ???

If it is all about the Driving Experience, then after owning 5 of them, the BMW marque will be hard to beat... They don`t call them "The Ultimate Driving Experience" for fun..

Having knocked around them since the year 2000, they have a really organized, dedicated group of Owners/ fan base - especially in the BMW CCA...
I loved following them when they raced in Formula-1.. Attended the next to last F-1 race at Indy - what an experience !! They all ran V10`s then - so loud !

All the newer ones have 1 or 2 turbos- 1 small, 1 larger), and like all Bimmers, the torque comes on quickly and goes relentlessly like a train, until you let off the gas or it hits the 155mph limiter, for most vehicles..

My little 2002 Z3M Coupe had no limiter, and it used to be you could have the Limiter removed even by the Dealer..

All the older E46 and E39 Bimmers are to me, still the absolutely Best, all around vehicles that had that freight train broad flat torque curve that just kept pulling you forward faster, and never stopped until you let off or they hit the Limiter...

Have seen a few very nice Mercedes AMG vehicles come through my Shop, and they are also very nice, but they don`t handle like a Bimmer..
Certainly, the AMG option gets you a hand built engine, etc., and a lot of very nice options..

But for the maintenance, etc., that all German cars absolutely have to have to keep them trouble-free, I would rather spend it on the car with the Roundel because to me, they really are the Ultimate Driving Machine.. And I still make that 2,000 mile one-way drive from here to Texas...

How nice to be able to choose between so many incredible vehicles out there !!!
Good Luck !
Dan F

[Ronkh]

E36 = Best platform (imho)

Maybe cuz that was my first.

[Swanicyouth]

I`m assuming by reading the post the OP is interested only in a 2017 new model?

If not, any BMW with the S54 is pretty sweet...



I drove my friends 2016 Merc AMG CLA. It`s a turbo 4 - and a hair faster than my car. I still liked my car better.

But, the way I see it, unfortunately turbos are the future. If I was looking for something brand new - I would get an M2 or M3.

I`ve owned multIple BMWs and ownership is painless. All the upkeep is maintenance. The cars are built well and rarely break.

The BMW M cars above are turbo 6s - which I`d much prefer over any 4 cyl.

[OpenRoad]

Darn It! Y`all got me now all excited about being a little braver about turbos, ...then you force me to go back and peruse Bimmers.

I really hadn`t considered BMW, as many people have told me that they have had quite a few repairs with them. To be fair though, none of the people I have recently spoken with bought their cars new (Lord only knows the cars` pasts?). I keep walking up to drivers and asking them how they like their cars (mainly Audi & Mercedes). Amazing how easy it is to get information from car owners. Everyone is usually quite flattered, and proud of their rides, even though they do honestly disclose what they feel are "shortcomings". Gotta love most people.

Dan F, we had flown the coop from WA by 1998, being forced into moving to coastal GA by hubby`s company ("Move, or lose your job..", he was told). Being five years from retirement, left us with few options, as my job for WWResearch & Extension Center (part of WSU) in Puyallup didn`t pay rat poop. Sorry, we missed the opportunity to cross paths. It`s also a small world here too, as two neighbors up the hill from us moved here from Olympia & Puyallup (the closest neighbor was familiar our riverfront property, and only lived 10 miles from us, in WA!).

I thank you, for more comments on Bimmer performance. I really don`t care too much for the exterior styling of some of the BMWs...too much the "well worn bar of soap", or "bathtub".

And, YES....Swanicyouth, I am really only interested in a 2017 model, regardless of make (I might as well be the one to destroy the turbos/whatever..?). But we need more than a two seater though, just `cause of more practicality. Small back seat is fine, and really don`t want another drop top (Cuts into trunk capacity mainly). Need space, for suitcases.

Thanks again...for the additional comments

[Ronkh]

335
535
m

[Ronkh]

235

[Swanicyouth]

Darn It! Y`all got me now all excited about being a little braver about turbos, ...then you force me to go back and peruse Bimmers.

I really hadn`t considered BMW, as many people have told me that they have had quite a few repairs with them. To be fair though, none of the people I have recently spoken with bought their cars new (Lord only knows the cars` pasts?). I keep walking up to drivers and asking them how they like their cars (mainly Audi & Mercedes). Amazing how easy it is to get information from car owners. Everyone is usually quite flattered, and proud of their rides, even though they do honestly disclose what they feel are "shortcomings". Gotta love most people.

Dan F, we had flown the coop from WA by 1998, being forced into moving to coastal GA by hubby`s company ("Move, or lose your job..", he was told). Being five years from retirement, left us with few options, as my job for WWResearch & Extension Center (part of WSU) in Puyallup didn`t pay rat poop. Sorry, we missed the opportunity to cross paths. It`s also a small world here too, as two neighbors up the hill from us moved here from Olympia & Puyallup (the closest neighbor was familiar our riverfront property, and only lived 10 miles from us, in WA!).

I thank you, for more comments on Bimmer performance. I really don`t care too much for the exterior styling of some of the BMWs...too much the "well worn bar of soap", or "bathtub".

And, YES....Swanicyouth, I am really only interested in a 2017 model, regardless of make (I might as well be the one to destroy the turbos/whatever..?). But we need more than a two seater though, just `cause of more practicality. Small back seat is fine, and really don`t want another drop top (Cuts into trunk capacity mainly). Need space, for suitcases.

Thanks again...for the additional comments

I think you should get a Subaru STI then. My friend has two 2016s and loves them.

I`m anti-Subaru because I think the engines are wonky. But they should be pretty good to 100k.

I dunno. Are you rich? What is your budget?

The STI is hard to beat for the money.

[OpenRoad]

Subarus? Always drove like a truck. A BAD truck. Older Subarus were very enduring & trouble free. My family had a number of them that they beat to death, but it wasn`t on the Autobahn. It was difficult to destroy a Subaru. Alas, handling was pretty close to bad, or none.

I can`t imagine taking a step down from vehicles that I have driven over the past 50 years, but I may have to (?). "Trucks" are great, and Subaru also reminds me of my lame-spastic-electronic failures many decades ago, owning/driving a German Opel on my job. In fairness,...Opels that we have encountered in the EU have been doggy-puttmobiles, but they DID get everyone from Point A...to Point B.
Better than any Subaru that I ever drove.

Trucks?: Still have a Dodge 3/4 T Hemi in de garage for "Work Detail". Mr. Dodge is faithful as Hell, but not really great at cornering, or being safe at 130-or-so mph?

I`m not rich, but I will likely never drive another Subaru within my lifetime. Puleeeze......

Gonna take a LOT of convincing? Fun post, but not quite THAT OLD yet.....