Anyone use FightingChance.com or others? (New Vehicle Pricing Info)

[SwedishRider]

I`ll be in the market for a new vehicle sometime soon, and car buying sites such as Edmunds.com and TrueCar.com don`t yield the same clarity on dealer invoice prices (nor factory to dealer incentives) that I remember them providing 10 years ago. I came across FightingChance.com (recommended in a few forums) and I`m interested to know if anyone has any experience with it. Or is there another site you use for pricing information when buying or ordering a new vehicle? Thanks.

[SwedishRider]

Maybe a better question might be: what sites and methods do you use to negotiate the best new car purchase price?

[TheMeanGreen]

I`ll be in the market for a new vehicle sometime soon, and car buying sites such as Edmunds.com and TrueCar.com don`t yield the same clarity on dealer invoice prices (nor factory to dealer incentives) that I remember them providing 10 years ago. I came across FightingChance.com (recommended in a few forums) and I`m interested to know if anyone has any experience with it. Or is there another site you use for pricing information when buying or ordering a new vehicle? Thanks.

Cars.com is a good resource, but the best resource is the Internet. Meaning, go to the manufacturers website, spec the car how you desire, or mirroring the one on a lot and compare prices. After that, you can use cars.com to locate vehicles near to you to then progressively price them throughout the country. You can also look up the depreciation percentage of the last model year, and do the math to somewhat figure out the prices of these year old cars. Now is that the firm standard, as some previous model years may not be current generations? No, doing your homework, and searching high and low is pretty much how to figure out a good price. Also look up previous incentives that have been offered on similar models, this will give you an idea of how much the dealer normally makes on a vehicle.

Fictional Ex: 2015 Chevy Silverado 1500, price - $40,000, dealer incentive $5,000, before out the door price: $35k.

^ You can see that the dealer just offered to make $5k less on a vehicle, and I garuntee you that they are still making some amount of money. I know this because I work the back of the house of a big used car dealership.

These are good strategies because you can start to get a price range idea of what a vehicle costs.

[SwedishRider]

Thanks for the info. My normal method is to find out dealer invoice, subtract out the dealer holdback and any known factory to dealer incentives, and that yields the price the dealership paid for the car. Then, if you can stay within 2-5% of that number, you`ve got a good deal. Problem is, many of these sites are giving you the "average of what others paid", when in reality, that is a terrible method to determine value (if everyone else overpaid... then the average will be higher than it should).

A few websites encourage sending a bid request to all dealers within a 100 mile radius, and see what pops. Then, pit the respondents against one another to earn the sale. That seems like a great shopping method, but a lot of work, especially if dealers are within a narrow range of one another.

That fightingchance.com website promised to give dealer invoice prices, and all factory to dealer incentives (model specific to what the customer wants) for $40. If that is true, it`s easily worth the $40 as it could save thousands off the right car.

[The Driver]

Why buy a new car?

The only time you should buy a new car is if you want x options with x combination. A low milage Cpo will save you thousands and possibly get you an extended warranty.

[dcjredline]

I agree with the above, except the specific options. There is NEVER a "good deal" on a new car. Did you know new cars lose 45-65% of their value in the first 4 years? So even if you get a 0% interest rate you still are`nt "making out" on a new car. I don`t know about any of you but I cant afford to take that kind of loss on that much money.

If you buy a $35k car you will lose the equivalent to about $100 a week for the first 4 years? Would you throw a $100 bill out your window every Friday on your way to work? Same thing.

"But new cars have a warranty"...For $19,250 you can buy 5 other used cars in that time period and throw the bad one away.

$35,000 - 55% is $19,250 / 208 weeks = $92 a week

Don`t believe me? Look at the used prices for a 4 year old car compared to a new one. They NOSE DIVE and are an unwise purchase.

I should qualify this by being an open book. I used to buy a new car about every 2 years. No real reason but I got "bored" of the current one or my "needs" changed. I bought my first one in 1991 and my last one in 2007. Id say there were at least 7 cars in that time. Lets just guestimate the average payment was $360 a month... $299,520 I paid for cars!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you know if I had just bought used and saved $199k (and bought "ONLY" $100k worth of cars) would have been worth in 16 years at 8%? ARE YOU SITTING DOWN??? $712,697 I dont know about you but I am KICKING MY OWN BUTT FOR BEING SO DUMB in the past. I didnt like ANY of those cars enough to have lost $700k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SwedishRider]

I completely agree that a new car is a horrible investment. The depreciation alone does eat a ton of money. But I do think there is a case to be made if someone holds a car until the wheels fall off that a new car can make sense. In that case, depreciation is less of a factor (but still a consideration nonetheless), and the best years of ownership with no repairs go to the new car buyer. I`ve seen the math done where the ownership cost to buy new vs used works out to be about the same per year if we assume the same finite lifespan of the car in both cases AND the owner holds the car until the complete end of life of the car whether new or used.

But if someone plans on trading in a car before the end of a car`s life, then a new car makes no sense mathematically.

[dcjredline]

A 2 year old car can still be VERY reliable and has already depreciated quite a bit. 2 years old is still (mechanically speaking) pretty darn new. Something to consider at least. Im not trying to make you do something Im just giving you a different way of thinking of it.

[rlmccarty2000]

I agree with buying used, unless you just like new and have money to burn. I recently bought a 2011 BMW 335d for $16k. New the thing was over $55k. I like it, but not $55k worth.

[dcjredline]

Wow, a BMW down $40k in 6 years. UGH.

[Asa.C]

I`ll be in the market for a new vehicle sometime soon, and car buying sites such as Edmunds.com and TrueCar.com don`t yield the same clarity on dealer invoice prices (nor factory to dealer incentives) that I remember them providing 10 years ago. I came across FightingChance.com (recommended in a few forums) and I`m interested to know if anyone has any experience with it. Or is there another site you use for pricing information when buying or ordering a new vehicle? Thanks.

I ordered the pdf package from FightingChance about a month ago, mainly for the pricing information but I found the tactics interesting and somewhat useful as well. They do include the msrp and invoice (vehicle, options and individual dealer add-ons) as well as the incentives that you eluded to in your third post (#4) above. They definitely advocate for the "bid request" method above all else and maintain that this is the only way to get the best price for the vehicle that you`re looking for.

I received 10 total pdf files, easily a hundred printed pages of information. Out of those 10, 3 or 4 were introduction material and another 1 or 2 were partially relevant. All things considered, based on your post(s) above, you probably already know most of the information that they provide. That being said, I found it all very interesting and informative, for the pricing, current and previous sales outlooks and again, for the tactics and angles for negotiation. Although I ended up purchasing a slightly used 2016, I don`t regret the FightingChance purchase and would probably do it again. Every bit of information that you can gather and use to your advantage is valuable, in my opinion.

If you have any other questions about what the pdfs may or may not include, let me know.