Do you Dawn wash??

[1 Clean WS6]

Hey all!



I was wondering how many folks do the Dawn wash process as I have been seeing a bunch of posts that include this step. Personally I have never done it. In my case if I need to remove a product I`ll use a water/alcohol mix or some Griot`s Paint Prep.



If you do Dawn wash I`d like to know why you wash with it and how often you use this process.



Mike

[Woob]

No Dawn. I use Hi Temp Prep Wash. Great uses for a 32 oz. Grabbing a gallon next time!

[jimmybuffit]

Dawn belongs in the kitchen.



Mfgs who promote the use of Dawn (a very high pH detergent) should seriously reconsider their position. And their chemistry education...



There are MANY other options for obtaining a clean, pH neutral, decontaminated surface.



Jim

[Scottwax]

Nope, never. The only time I would consider it is if I am stripping a car for a repaint. I prefer to use polishes to remove any old wax, etc.

[RedondoV6]

Originally posted by Jimmy Buffit



...Mfgs who promote the use of Dawn (a very high pH detergent) should seriously reconsider their position. And their chemistry education...

Jimmy, you might want to reconsider this statement, especially the remark about other peoples chemistry education.



Contary to popular belief Dawn does NOT have a high PH value. Even in 50/50 solution is barely registers PH8! That`s very similar to many car wash shampoos. (I`m looking at the litmus test as I type)

[stilez]

Originally posted by Jimmy Buffit

Dawn belongs in the kitchen.



Mfgs who promote the use of Dawn (a very high pH detergent) should seriously reconsider their position. And their chemistry education...



There are MANY other options for obtaining a clean, pH neutral, decontaminated surface.



Jim

Agreed :up





A regular wash followed by a clay barring procedure and polishing is the road to success for paint prep.



Dawn really isn`t promoting a cleaner surface.

[jimmybuffit]

This from the Dawn Homepage:

Ok to wash car?

Oops! I gotta go back and copy some more..

Your car surface and the dirt that gets on it are a lot different from the food soils and dishes that dishwashing liquids clean effectively. We don`t recommend them for cleaning your car.

I`m gonna emphasize what P&G`s Dawn Website clearly says:



"Your car surface and the dirt that gets on it are a lot different from the food soils and dishes that dishwashing liquids clean effectively. We don`t recommend them for cleaning your car."



Sal, are you listening?



Jim

[topnotchtouch]

Originally posted by RedondoV6

Jimmy, you might want to reconsider this statement, especially the remark about other peoples chemistry education.



Contary to popular belief Dawn does NOT have a high PH value. Even in 50/50 solution is barely registers PH8! That`s very similar to many car wash shampoos. (I`m looking at the litmus test as I type)

Are you sure about your measurements. The MSDS on P&G`s website states a PH of 8 in a 1% solution. I imagine a 50% solution would likely be much higher than 8.



EDIT: Evidently P&G has changed their MSDS as I specifically recall the statement of PH of 8 in a 1% solution and now it just states a PH of 8-9.



I think people have latched onto the PH thing ignoring other issues. Sure Dawn has a PH of 8-9. I think we can all agree that Dawn strips wax?? For comparison Meguiars 00 Hi Tech Wash which contains absolutely no detergents also has a PH of 8-9. I think anyone that is familiar with that product will tell you that it does NOT strip wax. What does that tell you? It is not just a factor of PH.

[RedondoV6]

Originally posted by rjstaaf

Are you sure about your measurements. The MSDS on P&G`s website states a PH of 8 in a 1% solution. I imagine a 50% solution would likely be much higher than 8.



EDIT: Evidently P&G has changed their MSDS as I specifically recall the statement of PH of 8 in a 1% solution and now it just states a PH of 8-9.

Dunno Bob ... I tested a mix of one egg cup of distilled water to one of original blue Dawn. 4 strips, two different test kits, they all came out the same at PH8. Undiluted it is testing at PH9.



As a reference point I recently tested A2Z at PH13 with the same kits. I would consider A2Z a strong base. People still use it on their clearcoated wheels though!



I think Mr. Chemist reported about the same findings on Dawn when the same subject was discussed recently, but I would have to go back and check.

[svanderbilt]

Seems like there are so many car-specific products to be used, than to copy what my no-nothing-about-detailing neighbors use to wash their car. I keep my Dawn in the kitchen, for that once a month when I do dishes.

[paco]

Mike,



Have you ever tested any other brands of dish soap to see what they come out as. I recall reading that Ivory or Sunlight might actually be more alkaline than Dawn.



Paco

[thinksnow]

Nein. Strong mix of NXT and Sonus is the strongest I use. Pre-Zaino, I`ll wash and use FPII (on the `Cord). I can see no other reason to use such a trim-battling shampoo on the sled aside from the Zargument (yes, it`s one word).

[imported_memnuts]

Originally posted by Jimmy Buffit

Dawn belongs in the kitchen.



Mfgs who promote the use of Dawn (a very high pH detergent) should seriously reconsider their position. And their chemistry education...



There are MANY other options for obtaining a clean, pH neutral, decontaminated surface.



Jim

In all due respect my take is a little different.



Basic chemistry states that dilution of said base (DAWN) in the concentration needed to do the job (wash) is significantly lowered (approaching pH 7). This Dawn/water solution is far closer to neutral pH than the acid rain a vehicle is exposed to. Note: do not confuse the effect of hi (excess) -OH and H+ active particles is a solution and their potential to cause harm or even clean. The pH of one’s stomach contents is very close to 1 or 2 and creates no harm to the normal stomach specialized lining cells. When these acid-producing cells create too much acid or chronically exposed the stomach lining to this acidic solution, harm does occur - ulcer. This same pH solution of HCl will cause severe burns of the skin. What’s the point? The assumption that a non-neutral solution will harm automotive seals, paint, rubber etc from a single short exposure time is unfounded. We are talking here about a one time / year exposure using a product that has active ingredients (surfactants and other agents) that removes oils. As stated earlier and here the Dawn solution pH is close to neutral and has no effect of the cleaning/stripping action. Give vehicle manufcturers some credit in their development of automotive paints and finishes that they took in consideration the harsh environment that their vehicles will face and the inappropriate "chronic" use of products to maintain them.



Other options yes and can be used if available. The false justification and misunderstood science for non usage of Dawn or any equivalent product with the same surfactant activity is also off-base. :nono The pH myth just does not stand up to science in this situation. pH is not a bad thing. It is just a measurement of H+ and OH- activity in a solution. Neutrality of a solution does not always mean good. Life and normal functioning of our bodies require varying pH body fluids and when all body fluids approach pH 7, things are not all good.



As a side note, I guess I also should save my vinegar (water spots) for my salads, Bon Ami (great glass cleaner/polisher for the kitchen porcelain, oil (glazes, and carnauba) for my crankcase and salads again, Woolite for my delicate clothing .All these items have expanded usages for vehicle maintenance and corresponding automotive specific products are also available. Nevertheless we still use them in appropriate situations with great results.

I understand that Dawn and other stripping products are like Kryptonite (misspell??) to glaze and filler users. This product will/has humbled me with what it will expose of the true condition of one painted finish when all the goo is gone. :scared



I thought we killed this Dawn myth awhile back. :nixweiss

[RedondoV6]

Originally posted by paco

Mike,



Have you ever tested any other brands of dish soap to see what they come out as. I recall reading that Ivory or Sunlight might actually be more alkaline than Dawn.



Paco

Paco.. no but I`ll be happy to test them if you like? An extra few bottles of dish soap will not take long to use up over the holidays, especially with how I burn food!



For anyone interested in testing their own car care products, I purchased the litmus test strips at an educational supplies store, very cheap ... around $3 for each kit of 30 to 40 strips.

[RedondoV6]

Originally posted by blkZ28Conv





..... As a side note, I guess I also should save my vinegar (water spots) for my salads, Bon Ami (great glass cleaner/polisher for the kitchen porcelain, oil (glazes, and carnauba) for my crankcase and salads again, Woolite for my delicate clothing. All these items have expanded usages for vehicle maintenance and corresponding automotive specific products are also available. Nevertheless we still use them in appropriate situations with great results.



I thought we killed this Dawn myth awhile back. :nixweiss

Amen to that!



I`m not sure why we even needed this poll, or what it is going to achieve but if we really MUST have it, lets at least get the facts about the product right and keep the discussion in some perspective. Is this really an important subject? I think not.