Autopia Opens The Debate

**Deep Gloss Auto Salon** · 01-14-2010, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Accumulator

Gee, I just realized that I`ve probably been viotalating that (old) rule quite a bit over the years, though nobody ever called me on it.

Nice change :xyxthumbs

Maybe policies like this will help temper some of the concern that`s been permeating the community as of late.

I can relate 100%

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

Don`t sweat it Accumulator, almost every one of us is guilty of violating that rule, it was never really enforced, anyway.

Agreed...

Seems like business as usual.....

**wannafbody** · 01-14-2010, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

I think whatever trouble they got in pertained to their mfr. and vendor relationships. I can think of very few instances when an unaffiliated member had any action taken against them for recommending a non-sponsor product.

But don`t let me stop you from grinding your ax, which you seem intent on doing.

Speaking the truth is grinding an ax? At one point Bob from Danase was a sponsor here(until his forum cost skyrocketed) and Anthony was always up front about his affiliation with Optimum. IIRC their banning was around the time Autopia went commercial with the Ultima line. And if their infractions were so horribly wrong why were they reinstated as members after a long period of time? Nothing changed on their part.

And the thread has the word "debate" in it. That references that there is potential for differing opinions. Let`s talk about the history of this site so that the new owners don`t make the same mistakes the last guy did.

Sure, Bynon built this site initially but this site became great because guys who were passionate about detailing took their time to post for the benefit of others(and the vast majority of those guys don`t post here any longer). The members did more to give this site legitimacy than David Bynon did by hyping products.

**MarcHarris** · 01-14-2010, 03:10 PM

^ agreed. Good to see the new ownership wants to continue to move autopia in a positive direction that will benefit all people

**BobD** · 01-14-2010, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by wannafbody

Speaking the truth is grinding an ax? At one point Bob from Danase was a sponsor here(until his forum cost skyrocketed) and Anthony was always up front about his affiliation with Optimum. IIRC their banning was around the time Autopia went commercial with the Ultima line. And if their infractions were so horribly wrong why were they reinstated as members after a long period of time? Nothing changed on their part.

And the thread has the word "debate" in it. That references that there is potential for differing opinions. Let`s talk about the history of this site so that the new owners don`t make the same mistakes the last guy did.

Sure, Bynon built this site initially but this site became great because guys who were passionate about detailing took their time to post for the benefit of others(and the vast majority of those guys don`t post here any longer). The members did more to give this site legitimacy than David Bynon did by hyping products.

Yeah, I was banned for a bit a long time ago because someone was giving false information about our company and I came on and corrected them. That was considered spam and I was banned for it. That`s why whenever someone post anything about us I just stay out of it. Even if someone asked a simple question. I think I was most ticked off about it because of all the money I gave David to support this site over the years in advertising fees and one time I try to correct someone I was banned. It sucked. Then it just got worse I think. Like the people that paid him the most to advertise got away with the most.

In my personal opinion it`d be much nicer if advertisers on the forum had their own forums and that was it and they`d have to keep their product pushing out of all the other forums. But I know some of the other forums are sponsored and they can push product in those forums on top of their own. I`d get rid of the sponsored regular forums.

Another thing I was always sort of peeved at is I`ve been advertising for a year now with the banner ads and in the product section. But there was only a push to support the vendors with their own forums and not the other contributors, which there is plenty of us. As a vendor I feel it`s just gotten to be 100% about how much they can make off of you and that`s it. No customer care for the paying vendors or anything. Just dollars and cents.

I`d most likely never support this forum in the way of money again. I find more joy in supporting the members by helping them by answering questions and such whenever I can.

**gmblack3** · 01-14-2010, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Danase

Yeah, I was banned for a bit a long time ago because someone was giving false information about our company and I came on and corrected them. That was considered spam and I was banned for it. That`s why whenever someone post anything about us I just stay out of it. Even if someone asked a simple question. I think I was most ticked off about it because of all the money I gave David to support this site over the years in advertising fees and one time I try to correct someone I was banned. It sucked. Then it just got worse I think. Like the people that paid him the most to advertise got away with the most.

In my personal opinion it`d be much nicer if advertisers on the forum had their own forums and that was it and they`d have to keep their product pushing out of all the other forums. But I know some of the other forums are sponsored and they can push product in those forums on top of their own. I`d get rid of the sponsored regular forums.

Another thing I was always sort of peeved at is I`ve been advertising for a year now with the banner ads and in the product section. But there was only a push to support the vendors with their own forums and not the other contributors, which there is plenty of us. As a vendor I feel it`s just gotten to be 100% about how much they can make off of you and that`s it. No customer care for the paying vendors or anything. Just dollars and cents.

I`d most likely never support this forum in the way of money again. I find more joy in supporting the members by helping them by answering questions and such whenever I can.

Well said Bob. I`m sure the folks who use your products are glad that you are here to help.

**Setec Astronomy** · 01-14-2010, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by wannafbody

Speaking the truth is grinding an ax? At one point Bob from Danase was a sponsor here(until his forum cost skyrocketed) and Anthony was always up front about his affiliation with Optimum. IIRC their banning was around the time Autopia went commercial with the Ultima line. And if their infractions were so horribly wrong why were they reinstated as members after a long period of time? Nothing changed on their part.

Perhaps you forget that ACC used to cough up most of the monetary support for the forum. For apparently many reasons, DB decided to break that link and open the forum to other sponsors, at which point he became very sensitive to people with non-sponsor vendor/mfr. affiliations "spamming". Clearly, those people were let back in on their promise not to break the new rules, that is what changed "on their part".

I`m not defending what was done, I just don`t remember it as some sort of witch hunt to remove the "good" members...and your current suggestions of amnesty smack a little bit of opening the prisons...

**wannafbody** · 01-14-2010, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

Perhaps you forget that ACC used to cough up most of the monetary support for the forum. For apparently many reasons, DB decided to break that link and open the forum to other sponsors, at which point he became very sensitive to people with non-sponsor vendor/mfr. affiliations "spamming". Clearly, those people were let back in on their promise not to break the new rules, that is what changed "on their part".

I`m not defending what was done, I just don`t remember it as some sort of witch hunt to remove the "good" members...and your current suggestions of amnesty smack a little bit of opening the prisons...

Did you read Bob`s response? I know that there were blatant spammers and they deserved to be banned but that wasn`t the case with everyone and some cases seemed mighty suspicious (Todd, ZoranC). Now, maybe I don`t know all the details about every case but the ones I do know from first hand information paint a much different picture than what was publicly portrayed by the last owner.

Yes, Autopia Store payed the bills for this site for years and for whatever reason The Perfect Shine partnership split up and Autopia Store ended up leaving. I have my doubts that was a friendly split.

I think the biggest issue for 3D is to find a balance between enough commercial content to pay the bills and too much commercial content that the site becomes a giant billboard and hype machine for a never ending barage of new technological breakthrough products. Quite frankly, the site became a hype machine and I think it turned hurt the forums.

**Setec Astronomy** · 01-15-2010, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by wannafbody

Did you read Bob`s response? I know that there were blatant spammers and they deserved to be banned but that wasn`t the case with everyone and some cases seemed mighty suspicious (Todd, ZoranC). Now, maybe I don`t know all the details about every case but the ones I do know from first hand information paint a much different picture than what was publicly portrayed by the last owner.

Yes, I did read Bob (Danase`s) response; he`s back, what more do you want? Is there really a laundry list of people who left under similar circumstances? In case you don`t remember, most of the people who have been banned were simply because their name should have been Richard. Some of those have been let back in (say, William Bonney), only to prove that once a Richard, always a Richard. If you miss Todd, I`ve got news, he`s got his own forum now...all Todd, all the time.

Maybe you can submit your list of terrorists you`d like to have released, and the forum can vote on them (with management approval, of course).

**Pats300zx** · 01-15-2010, 07:20 AM

the site becomes a giant billboard and hype machine for a never ending barage of new technological breakthrough products. Quite frankly, the site became a hype machine and I think it turned hurt the forums.

Don`t you think this is the case with just about every detailing forum that is supported in some way??? I mean why else are the sponsors there unless to sell product. I think it is up to the members to decide what is hype, what is BS, and use what products work for them.

**David Fermani** · 01-15-2010, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

I think whatever trouble they got in pertained to their mfr. and vendor relationships. I can think of very few instances when an unaffiliated member had any action taken against them for recommending a non-sponsor product.

Yeah, anyone that threatened DB`s own product and personal agenda/integrity usually got the boot. Sad, because 99% of those people are the back bone to real knowledge. W/O many of them there is no real validation to many discussions here. Just a bunch of enthusiast & pro detailers that argue about what they think is the truth. Some of the best discussions and input have come from banned members here. Maybe they`ll consider returning knowing that DB isn`t here any longer?

Originally Posted by Setec Astronomy

If you miss Todd, I`ve got news, he`s got his own forum now...all Todd, all the time.

Maybe you can submit your list of terrorists you`d like to have released, and the forum can vote on them (with management approval, of course).

I didn`t know Todd had his own forum? Mind elaborating so people can avoid thinking you`re so spiteful?.

**Setec Astronomy** · 01-15-2010, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by David Fermani

Yeah, anyone that threatened DB`s own product and personal agenda/integrity usually got the boot. Sad, because 99% of those people are the back bone to real knowledge. W/O many of them there is no real validation to many discussions here. Just a bunch of enthusiast & pro detailers that argue about what they think is the truth. Some of the best discussions and input have come from banned members here.

So that will magically change if all those people are let back? Those banned members KNOW what the truth is, as opposed to those of us who are left, who just THINK we know? If only reality were so transparent and graspable; we all have our own perspectives, and our own "truth". You know, one`s man junk is another`s treasure, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I guess if we can get enough people here who are truthy we can just beat down all the stupid, stubborn people and get them to think just like the truthers. Won`t that be fun! I think that experiment was tried elsewhere, and failed.

Originally Posted by David Fermani

I didn`t know Todd had his own forum? Mnd elaborating so people avoid think you`re so a spiteful?.

For all intents and purposes, it`s his forum, it`s certainly his venue, created for/by him, and you`re not going to lure me into elaborating so I can run afoul of the new managment here. They may tolerate wide product discussion but there is certainly no need to plug other forums here, as you are trying to get me to do.

**BobD** · 01-15-2010, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Pats300zx

Don`t you think this is the case with just about every detailing forum that is supported in some way??? I mean why else are the sponsors there unless to sell product. I think it is up to the members to decide what is hype, what is BS, and use what products work for them.

I agree with you man. I just wish the rules would change so they could only do that stuff in their own forums though instead of allowing them to sponsors other forums. That way if you want to read about what they are doing you can do it in one forum and if not you don`t have to to go into that forum at all.

**David Fermani** · 01-15-2010, 07:49 AM

Not trying to plug another forum at all. Just don`t know why you`re so full of deeply rooted anger towards people than move this industry forward. People that have contributed to this forum more than most. And I`m not talking about just 1 person here.

**Lone Ranger** · 01-15-2010, 08:24 AM

Those banned members KNOW what the truth is,

I wish I knew...............:faint: If someone knows the truth please stand up and share it with me.

**Junebug** · 01-15-2010, 08:46 AM

I`d like to see everyone that was banned given the opportunity to come back, I would like to see Todd back because he`s not only an excellant detailer but he has the best write-ups and the most interesting cars. I doubt he would come back since he`s busy with his own forum and that is doing very well. I know there are some that would probably last all of 3 days before they get banned again, but there are some real decent folks that got banned and ought to get that second chance. You have to take the good with the bad.

This is a decent forum, it doesn`t have the super PC correct, net nanny crap that MOL has, nor the 1 post a week that a few others get and it`s not the all schill, all the time that XX has become, (I`m sure all TID members will get a kick outta that)

So, I guess we wait and see what will happen.