Should the government bail-out include domestic automakers?

[Deep Gloss Auto Salon]

You`re right about that Jason. Imagine how much worse things could get for not only Michigan, but the entire country. I think the only ones to gain from it would be the non-Big 3 American car companies.

Yep, estimates are the the big 3 generate Approx 10 MILLION jobs (OEM, Dealers, Suppliers, Logistics, Service Industry that supports workers, etc) creating $330 BILLION in annual income that alone is STAGERRING, then you also need to factor in the taxes that each plant contributes to the city/town in which it operates...

The fat cats who run the companies should bite the bullet and take a salary no more than the average worker. Someone who makes $16.5 million a year can afford it...

Agreed

when Lee Iacocca went to the feds for loan to save Chrysler in the mid 70`s he took a salary of $1 a year.

Ha ha, Lee was no fool... Dont be fooled, He did VERY well that year after stock options/bonus`.... The $1 pay was all smoke and mirrors

[imported_Picus]

Funny, when we had the same thread on bailing out lenders it was like 90% no, 10% yes.

[imported_taki0187]

Someone correct me if I`m wrong but if the government bails out GM where does the government get the money? taxpayers, you and me? Same thing with Fannie and Fredie Mac the taxpayers are going to foot the bill for the greedy CEO`s lending money out to people who couldn`t afford it.

[Deep Gloss Auto Salon]

Someone correct me if I`m wrong but if the government bails out GM where does the government get the money? taxpayers, you and me? Same thing with Fannie and Fredie Mac the taxpayers are going to foot the bill for the greedy CEO`s lending money out to people who couldn`t afford it.

The current proposal is to provide $75B to the Big 3, estimates are that if JUST ONE of the big three dissapear it will cost us * $175B in just the first year.....



* Based on a report on NPR

[TortoiseAWD]

Rewarding industry for failure yet again. Hooray?



Tort

(shakes head in disgust)

[imported_Yal]

Rewarding industry for failure yet again. Hooray?



Tort

(shakes head in disgust)

I agree its just ridiculous. I`d rather go through the 5-10 year pain of all that unemployment and money loss than give them a dime. These companies were/are run by the same people that were there when oil went scarce in the 70`s but less than two decades later they did the same thing all over again and their only pathetic excuse is they just built what Americans wanted

If they go down I truly believe that out of the ashes of the devastation would come a better America. Let it happen.

[salty]

Does anyone have a list of the companies that have asked or did receive a bailout recently.



Paul Harvey on the radio yesterday said AIG is asking or received? another 40 billion, to make it 100 billion total, while all the big wigs were caught at a fancy resort, lying about who they worked for.

[Inzane]

Given I don`t live in the US I`m not directly affected by this, but I feel for you guys. I would seriously feel kicked in the balls if my government was going to use my tax money to support companies that got themselves in trouble for producing ****** inferior product for most of the last ~15 years (not to mention get themselves in too deep with crappy UAW deals).

[Deep Gloss Auto Salon]

the big whigs that made the real choices should not be compensated anymore than a white collar manager - It digusts me to see these guys still get their normal salary/incentives whilst running an organization into the ground. I am hopeful that the leverage the feds will have by granring the cash infusion will result in the head honcho`s getting some serious pay slashes.3



when you take into consideration the below, to me the decison becomes more palatable



1) The impact it will have on our economy to let them go under

2) What it will cost the country (you and I $75B to infuse these companaies with what is needed to keep them afloat until they can re-tool and until union contracts turnover to relieve them of some legacy costs VS. what it will cost the country (again you and I $175 in the first year alone)

[White95Max]

...estimates are that if JUST ONE of the big three dissapear it will cost us * $175M in just the first year.....



* Based on a report on NPR

Seems to me, if we saved the billions of dollars per month we`re spending on wars, we could easily offset the 14.5M per month (=175M/yr) in that estimate.



We`re fighting a losing battle by bailing out all these companies. Now that our government has bailed out the financial institutions, any other company can piss and moan, "me too!"

If the executives can`t run their business profitably, then they need to change their ways or face the consequences. When small businesses with 10 employees are at risk of going under, do they have a right to use taxpayer money to bring themselves above water? Where do we draw the line? Just because a company is large enough to affect a broad population, they deserve better treatment than smaller businesses?



WE ALREADY HAVE NO MONEY. Why don`t we stop spending so d*mn much and start looking at ways to save some? The government seems to have the same money management training as these failing CEOs.

[imported_Picus]

I agree its just ridiculous. I`d rather go through the 5-10 year pain of all that unemployment and money loss than give them a dime. These companies were/are run by the same people that were there when oil went scarce in the 70`s but less than two decades later they did the same thing all over again and their only pathetic excuse is they just built what Americans wanted

If they go down I truly believe that out of the ashes of the devastation would come a better America. Let it happen.

I have to agree. It seems odd to me that so many people preach personal responsibility with regard to their political views, but then support what is essentially band-aid solution for companies that clearly have no idea to run themselves properly.



Let them go under.

There was another thread on here recently, when one of our American friends jokingly talked about Canada being socialist, re. our medical system paid for by taxes. When does it take away from the capitalist, free market system when the govt. bails out companies in trouble. It almost becomes the govt. running the business? On the other hand, as mentioned in other responses here, it is a huge part of the American economy. In the real world today, the government should be there for the good of the people, and compromises in the system may be necessary.

Heh.



It really is curious to me why so many people generally opposed the wall st bailout, but support this? Is there some sort of good will toward Detroit because they employ "regular blue collar workers"?

[Banacheq]

Given I don`t live in the US I`m not directly affected by this, but I feel for you guys. I would seriously feel kicked in the balls if my government was going to use my tax money to support companies that got themselves in trouble for producing ****** inferior product for most of the last ~15 years (not to mention get themselves in too deep with crappy UAW deals).

That`s exactly the case and I think it`s f`n ridiculous that anyone would even remotely consider bailing out the automakers a good idea.



None of them will simply shutter their operations, they`ll be forced to do what every other large failing company does - file for bankruptcy protection or look for a buyer. The buyer however should not be the taxpayers.



Giving them cash to survive does nothing but delay the inevitable and they`ll be back in the same position in a few months, maybe a year.



If this does go through, expect to see just about every other industry sticking their hand out and you`ll be thought a fool if you don`t try to get your "fair share" of the handouts.



It makes me sick!

[Mortil]

Oh yes the old dragin` wagon. Parents has a 1974 pontiac grand safari station wagon. I`m guessing it got worse MPG then your neighbors YD gets.



Besides for how tall the SUVs of today are, they are about the same length as a XL denali. I think the wagon was 500lbs less.



Pontiac Grand Safari - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia







Four kids in our family. We could lay down all the seats in the back and all 4 of us would sleep on the overnight drive to FL for vacation. :woot2:



I might of bought the hybrid version if they had that in my pickup when I bought it. But I still would be worries about long term reliability with the hybrid system.

i think those station wagons are grose.

Like the New Ford mustang i polished (Mustang GT from -06) the paintjob was lousy and when i drove it the whole interior felt and sounded Cheap . realy realy cheap . and no fun driving . i have more fun driving my Saab 9000 Aero or any other JDM sportscar from the early 90is that is bad .



sweden is what we call "wannabe US" country . the SUV sales increased for a lot of years here. and we are the country that has most Station wagons per %/people



now the Small cars is selling alot here cause to the Economical failure (thank you american banking system)



what i wanted to say . you dont need Large SUVs for a family . and if the "big three" dont hang on the future technology and start making some quality they are smoked.

[MSOsr]

I play golf with a guy that worked for one of the Big 3 and he retired at age 55 at 85% of his salary (which was big enough to support owning a house in Michigan and one in South Florida).



No wonder those companies don`t have money!



I agree.....let them file Chapter 11, get concessions from suppliers and unions, and return to profitability.



Mike

[David Fermani]

You can`t really blame the union worker for the demise of the auto industry. It`s the top tier corporate greed as well as the union diplomats that constantly fight back and forth for more money/benefits. I think the unions were a great thing back in the early days of its creation, but over the last few decades, they`ve gone out of control and untimately killed the Big 3. I know way too many union auto worker janitors that make $40-50 per hour for doing nothing. That, coupled with overinflated leasing residuals stuck the knife in deeper. It`s just a matter of time before all the overseas car manufacturers feel similar pain when their employees start retiring.