Is there an unbiased or overly biased review?

[jkochis]

Last time I went I got the full sized white Charisma`s for $6 and the hand towels for $4.

[imported_Bunky]

Do you all think most reviews are too biased or promoting spamming especially on forums to be a bad (invalid) review?

There are enthusiast for every brand so some can get very promotive. I know one poster on autopia was taken to task by some self-appointed forum policeman for this and called him spammer. I do not think he was but this person had his own definition of spam. He just was enthusiastic about his results.

Do you think people say positive things when they ignore negative aspects?

Where is the line between enthusiast and spammer?

Even on sponsored forums like this one, AG, Meguiars, DD. etc, I see negative reviews about their products so I do not see a complete whitewash. I do not see the forum owners taking these down and some get challenged but sometimes these threads usually fall apart "I am a better detailer than you" or "you are a hack". This is especially true about polishes.

I read most of the reviews and obviously the ones that compare products usually provide the most information but I have not see many that were just wrong.

I get the impression that some believe spamming is rampant. Yes, you do see someone post (usually new to forum) about some miracle sealant but these are few and far between.

But even on some sponsored sites, I do not see wholesale misrepresentation..yes they get visibility in threads.

[Street Dreams]

I think almost anyone is a natural born promoter weather they know it or not. When it comes to trying a new product and reviewing it most people IMO tend to give rave reviews, simply because they have tried something that many others have not AND a lot of guys want to be the first one to start the next flavor of the month or trend in detailing.

This happens all the time, think about restaurants, movies, books... people who eat at a new restaurant on opening day and simply "like" their food and service, go on to tell their friends about how this "great new place" opened up and "you have to try it" when in fact that restaurant simply was decent, but probably no better than anywhere else in town they are used to eating at. Excitement and exaggeration are generated through ego sometimes rather than facts.

I dont think when it comes to detailing that its spamming because spamming is simply chaotic plugging without even the attempt of reasoning and its easily called out. Sure some guys spam but the majority dont try to be malicious about it, I hope

Another big issue, and I even wrote a thread on product reviews and my opinions on them is that people tend to favor things they just spent money on! New $200 wax? Sure its the best wax ever! (how can it not be, you just dropped a pay check on it)

When someone is doing a product review with their brand new expensive wax, after they apply it and buff it off they look at the car and again (many guys) will subconsciously think the car looks and feels better with this particular wax on it and then give a review on the forums reflecting those same perceptions. People do this because they want to justify their expense and a lot of times again they arent lying about it they simply cannot control their subconscious.

I have learned to look at products from a purely objective standpoint now and I`ll tell you it makes me find and use the best products based on PERFORMANCE rather than prestige or price. Come to think of it I have never purchased a wax or sealant that costs more than $35... ever.

[shizam1]

Well, I just bought an opti-mit, so I`ll be giving my review on that shortly, and you can tell me whether it`s biased or not I`ll be comparing it to the Dragon Fiber MF towels which I`ve been using and a $3 grout sponge from Lowes.

[bmw5541]

I couldn`t agree more with Dave.
Very often someone will drop a lot of money on a product and then have to justify the cost, weather they realize it or not. I think we may have all done this at one time or another. There are very few products that I now say that I will never replace, or nothing can top this. You just might have to eat your words. There are always new technologies coming out and new products to surpass the old ones.

I also think that on some forums, people are afraid to tell what they really feel about a product, because that product is produced by the owners of that forum (this is not true here on TID).

[Junebug]

I think that there is a few too many variables to say with 100% certainty that polish x is better than polish y. What you say - everyone "knows" M105 is king and anything else is garbage! Actually, I think very highly of M105 but it`s not the best for ALL paints. Ever do GM single stage white after about 5 years of neglect and I think you`ll agree.

Even if you kept the variables to a minimum - same buffer, same pads, same technique - you still could fail to show one product over the other because there are some polishes that "like" one pad over another or do better with a DA or with a rotary.

Bottom line - a guy like Mr. Helme could polish a car with spit and a craftmans buffer and look better than some with all the inventory of PAC and AG combined. Point is - the "human" element, you can`t rule it out. Like James Earl Jones said in Conan," What is a sword without the hand that holds it".

[GoFast908Z]

Yeah Dave hit it on the head pretty well.

[imported_doctordon]

Perception is everything. In the words of the late George Steinbrenner, "One`s man`s sh!t is another man`s treasure."

[imported_RaskyR1]

Thanks for posting this here Al. I think this thread can actually help make future reviews better.

Dave brings up some very good points too.

[imported_User Name]

This is a great thread and I agree with a lot of what has already been written.

I`m not sure I`d classify some of the stuff as spam, rather over hype. I`m sure I`ve been guilty of it as much as the next guy. To me, it comes in a few forms, some of which have been outlined. Here are some I think go on:

The Pro: Whether some of you pros know it or not, but you appeal to your profession as proof a certain product is the bomb. Even, some do it through showing exotic car details to prove "product x" is the best. Sometimes I am skeptical of what Pros say, because I feel like it is tantamount to a celebrity endorsement. I`m not sure if the product is really good or if it is just a bit of George Foreman hype!!! LOL

The Amateur: Drops a boat load of cash on a product and feels he has NO choice but to hype it.

The Follower: Uses something, can`t discern whether it is good, bad or ugly and decides to join whatever the masses say about something.

The Shill: Secretly working for a company and thereby promoting it as being amazing.

The Obvious: This happens more at AG than anywhere else IMHO. They have there line of products and they openly tell you theirs are best like a rubber stamp. Other companies do it as well (yes even TID), just nobody like AG. One of the reasons I like this site is because I do feel it is more tolerant of REAL opinions.

I`m sure there are others, but those are the ones I think we see most often.

[SoonerFan]

Could`t agree anymore with your comments Dave. I have been caught a few times by some rave reviews over a product just to find that its performance was not to my expectation.

[imported_JSFM35X]

I think almost anyone is a natural born promoter weather they know it or not. When it comes to trying a new product and reviewing it most people IMO tend to give rave reviews, simply because they have tried something that many others have not AND a lot of guys want to be the first one to start the next flavor of the month or trend in detailing.

This happens all the time, think about restaurants, movies, books... people who eat at a new restaurant on opening day and simply "like" their food and service, go on to tell their friends about how this "great new place" opened up and "you have to try it" when in fact that restaurant simply was decent, but probably no better than anywhere else in town they are used to eating at. Excitement and exaggeration are generated through ego sometimes rather than facts.

I dont think when it comes to detailing that its spamming because spamming is simply chaotic plugging without even the attempt of reasoning and its easily called out. Sure some guys spam but the majority dont try to be malicious about it, I hope

Another big issue, and I even wrote a thread on product reviews and my opinions on them is that people tend to favor things they just spent money on! New $200 wax? Sure its the best wax ever! (how can it not be, you just dropped a pay check on it)

When someone is doing a product review with their brand new expensive wax, after they apply it and buff it off they look at the car and again (many guys) will subconsciously think the car looks and feels better with this particular wax on it and then give a review on the forums reflecting those same perceptions. People do this because they want to justify their expense and a lot of times again they arent lying about it they simply cannot control their subconscious.

I have learned to look at products from a purely objective standpoint now and I`ll tell you it makes me find and use the best products based on PERFORMANCE rather than prestige or price. Come to think of it I have never purchased a wax or sealant that costs more than $35... ever.

Very well said! +1...

I do not buy anthing reviewed by someone I don`t feel I know, here or elsewhere. i have gotten to know guys here and by being around every day youy get to know (and see), who the real deal is. When I first got into detailing as a serious hobby, I did not care what it cost but that it worked the best and easiest. What I learned is there is more than product. Technique is the diferentiator (is that a word?)

Just like photography, you can buy the camera, but it won`t make you better unless you learn technique. David, thants for taking the time to teach me via TID how to de-swirl my car. I will be forever grateful for the Rx you posted of pads and Polishes that faithful day. And Barry, my exhaust tips have never looked so good as they do now that you turned me onto P21S polishing soap. i never would have tried that without your suggestion.

Thanks and appreciate all your advise. Stay warm !

[imported_Mr. Gloss]

The Shill: Secretly working for a company and thereby promoting it as being amazing.

I sense that in all the forums, especially AG.

If you are disappointed in one of their products or disagree over its intended performance, you instantaneously become a hack, inexperienced, don`t have a clue what you`re doing, weekend nightmare.

AG has many cheerleaders. Some may not even use the products, they just want a UPS box to open and photograph.

Dave offered the best explanation.

Some guys will spend $39 on 8 oz of relabeled wax and glorify it even though it`s mediocre. Yet, let his $.99 fries be cool and watch out!

[Junebug]

Costs is not always an indication of quality. I`m a cheap ``````` when it comes to some things like cleaners, dressings, and waxes.

I guess I was like a lot of guys that started reading up on detailing and assumed that anything sold by an on-line detail supply just had to be the mack daddy best, they sure sounded like they were on the ad. But, I quickly learned the hard way, bought the Wolfgang collection and WTF! This stuff sure aint all that and a bag of chips! Then I started trying to buy and try every product made, well, I`ve found that most are about the same but I found a few that I liked and kept using.

I`m a bit gun shy when it comes to the next big flaver of the month, I`ll wait till I really need it and after a few others have tried and posted results.

There is one product that I`ve tried and really hyped up on detailing forums and that is BFWD, it`s the only thing that I found was Junebug proof (so easy a caveman can do it)!

[imported_Mr. Gloss]

And then there`s the layering crowd that`s always selling a layer of this, followed by a layer of that, followed by 4 or 5 layers of this and that.

When working with products that contain mineral spirits, the follow up layer may be diminishing the previous layer.

Anybody ever done a study on diminishing returns pertaining to sealants and waxes?

After 5 layers of wax you may discover that you`ve applied one layer.