"What Swirl Marks?"

**tmwfla** · 07-22-2010, 02:37 PM

Yes, those kind of conversations stink, I`m sure. I have not yet had the opportunity to detail anyone else`s car (other than family, of course), but will start soon.
I guess the thing we so easily forget (I`m guilty of this in a major way!), is that it truly is about the money with many customers, especially dealerships/commercial clients. You, me and many others on this site really LOVE to do it and LOVE to see our results, much in the same way as an artist, woodworker, etc. We are RECEIVING the money, not PAYING the money, and if someone simply "likes" their vehicle, it often is not worth it (in their mind) to "pay so much".
Personally, I have to get a hold of this concept much better myself when I`m actually doing someone else`s car. Find their expectations, explain fully what it will take to get there, do what they pay for (ok...maybe a bit more), and move on. I`ve already been caught up trying to make something as good as I WANT it, only to hear "it looks GREAT to me, I don`t need it perfect; my car`s not that nice..."

**OctaneGuy** · 07-22-2010, 03:20 PM

I get these customers all the time, though admittedly a great number of my customers already know my work so they have seen my befores and afters, but lately, I`ve been getting more and more customers who have never seen my work, so I have to spend more time educating them about paint and what I can do for it.

One thing that I`ve learned is that we are accustomed to seeing defects in paint, but customers aren`t. So to prevent any sort of "distortion", I will take a photo with my digital SLR of the swirls or defects, and show them. There is no way they can NOT see the problem.

Another thing I`ve learned is that most customers don`t realize that swirls are even a problem that can be fixed without a repaint. I hear this quite often from a customer..."I think I need a repaint or I`ve been told I need to have my car wet sanded"...when all it really needs is just a good polishing.

Once the customer acknowledges the problem, the challenge is convincing them your price is worth it. Because the next problem is, should they accept your price...unless they change their maintenance program, their paint will be all swirly again in no time. Not everybody is willing to give up their local car wash or pay more for a maintenance wash. It`s much easier to accept their paint is ugly and will always be that way than expend additional effort or $$.

Just my 2 cents.

Richard

**imported_doctordon** · 07-22-2010, 03:41 PM

Richard Lin - Welcome to the forum.
For those of you who haven`t seen Richard`s work, he is a master!
Great to have you as member.

**OctaneGuy** · 07-22-2010, 04:26 PM

Thank you for the warm welcome! :biggrin:

Working on a Black Jeep Rubicon right now where the owner thought he could improve his new jeep with some Meguiar`s paint cleaner, and instead made it look worse....fortunately he had the sense to stop what he was doing and bring it to me, lol. :clap:

Originally Posted by doctordon

Richard Lin - Welcome to the forum.
For those of you who haven`t seen Richard`s work, he is a master!
Great to have you as member.

**imported_Luster** · 07-22-2010, 05:44 PM

Hey Richard... Welcome to TID! A great place to hang out with others like ourselves.

ancing Dot:

**imported_Elk42** · 07-22-2010, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Puckman

I`ve related this story a number of times but it`s still fresh in my memory after almost 3 years!

When I was ordering my new BMW 335i coupe (Black Sapphire) I had to insist to the Sales Associate that I did NOT want it detailed or even washed when it arrives to the dealer. It was about the 3rd or 4th visit to the dealer and he was tied up with another customer for a little while that day so I spent some time browsing through the showroom floor. They had a gorgeous Jet Black Z4M Coupe sitting there and under the recessed lighting was glistening in all of its swirl glory. I couldn`t believe the condition of that paint. When my SA finally greeted me I again used the opportunity to remind him NOT TO EVEN WASH IT!!! He was still not getting it and kept insisting I let his "detail guys" clean it up after it arrives as a pre delivery service. I asked him if he would indulge me for just a minute.

I walked him out to the Z4 coupe and under the reflection of the light I asked him if he could see the numerous fine scratches in the lights reflection. He either didn`t see them or didn`t want to acknowledge them at first. "See what looks like spider web type scratches in the reflection?", I continued. He finally acquiesced and admitted to seeing them saying something like "oh, all cars have that".

I asked him if he thinks the car left Munich like that. I then asked him if the Vehicle Prep Center in South Carolina put those in the paint. After he silently answered my questions in his head I think he realized his "detail guys" probably were responsible for them as a result of their "skills". Bottom line is that the sales guy probably never noticed them until that day. Even if he was blind to them like Bill`s customer and was simply going along with me I made another impression of how insistent I was.

The final trump card was when I threatened to NOT give the post sale survey "all 5`s" as BMWNA and the dealer wants as customer follow up. That was the Achilles Heel and was played just in case he forgets during the next 9 weeks waiting for delivery.

It worked! When he called me to come pick up my new BMW it was filthy!!! I was EXTREMELY happy and expressed my appreciation. I promptly drove it home and washed it lovingly. I was inclined to then jump back in it, drive up to the dealer and ask him to pull the Z4 out into the sun and park it right next to mine to show them how they arrive to them off the truck! Nah, the next customer after me would still get the dealer "detail".

I understand, Bill, how that customer went against your best intentions but I always give em what they want to pay for. I`m hoping he did see what you were pointing out (like my Sales guy) and it might register later on.

Great post! Thanks. makes me want to go out a wax, again, mine today.

**John Henry** · 07-22-2010, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by OctaneGuy

I get these customers all the time, though admittedly a great number of my customers already know my work so they have seen my befores and afters, but lately, I`ve been getting more and more customers who have never seen my work, so I have to spend more time educating them about paint and what I can do for it.

One thing that I`ve learned is that we are accustomed to seeing defects in paint, but customers aren`t. So to prevent any sort of "distortion", I will take a photo with my digital SLR of the swirls or defects, and show them. There is no way they can NOT see the problem.

Another thing I`ve learned is that most customers don`t realize that swirls are even a problem that can be fixed without a repaint. I hear this quite often from a customer..."I think I need a repaint or I`ve been told I need to have my car wet sanded"...when all it really needs is just a good polishing.

Once the customer acknowledges the problem, the challenge is convincing them your price is worth it. Because the next problem is, should they accept your price...unless they change their maintenance program, their paint will be all swirly again in no time. Not everybody is willing to give up their local car wash or pay more for a maintenance wash. It`s much easier to accept their paint is ugly and will always be that way than expend additional effort or $$.

Just my 2 cents.

Richard

Excellent post. Welcome, Richard! Visiting FL anytime soon?

**OctaneGuy** · 07-22-2010, 07:11 PM

Adding to this thread...I just bought a new car...Since 2003, I`ve had 3 MINI Coopers..so I just picked up my third one a few weeks ago, a 2010 black Cooper Clubman S. It was ordered, built, and shipped from the UK, spent a week and a half in Oxnard at port, then it got to the dealership. They had strict instructions NOT to wash or detail it. The car arrived the night before, and I picked it up the next morning. This is what I found...this happened BEFORE it got to the dealership. Furthermore, I noticed clearcoat overspray over the driverside door jamb and door sill, but there was no record of the car being painted at port or the dealer!

Thanks! Haha, not in my plans yet. Going to Colorado next month for an event, but that`s about it.

Originally Posted by John Henry

Excellent post. Welcome, Richard! Visiting FL anytime soon?

Thanks! I`m looking forward to it! A lot of times I want to talk about this stuff, but don`t want to risk the customer reading it either, lol.

Originally Posted by Luster

Hey Richard... Welcome to TID! A great place to hang out with others like ourselves.

ancing Dot:

**muttgrunt** · 07-23-2010, 11:55 AM

Can`t win `em all Bill! Great story Puckman and the condition of "new cars" has forced me into thinking I`ll never ever order a brand-new car.

**Todd@RUPES** · 07-23-2010, 12:38 PM

I find it a relief when I don`t have to polish paint. A swirl free finish isn`t for everybody, and you automatically know that your client is going to be happy with the results.

**imported_Luster** · 07-23-2010, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by th0001

I find it a relief when I don`t have to polish paint. A swirl free finish isn`t for everybody, and you automatically know that your client is going to be happy with the results.

Good point Todd! Never looked at it from that standpoint. Ahhhhhhhhhhh..... what a relief. That`s better!:drool5:

**OctaneGuy** · 07-23-2010, 01:34 PM

This is very true. One thing that I have done a lot of research on.. thanks to the economy and driven by the need to take on a variety of work to pay my rent.. is that with the proper tool and chemicals, I can significantly improve the look of nearly any finish by making the paint look more uniform, adding gloss, and reducing swirls which leads to richer looking paint..and doing this in a fraction of the time.

Because I normally spend my time trying to achieve a nearly flawless finish, having to find ways to offer services that can appeal to a wider audience that don`t necessarily care nor have the ability to even maintain a swirl free finish, I`ve found that I can create a finish in a fraction of the time using a PC that would please these customers and still be happy with it. No buffer trails and no aggressive paint removal. Just the stuff that customers want. Glossy, wet, uniform, contrasty, finish that pops (with metallics) and looks better than before under direct sunlight though not perfect.

My constant battle is NOT to spend more time going over areas with my rotary trying to make it look better! Sometimes I`m even wondering if it would be just as effective to make certain parts of the car more flawless than others..focusing on the areas the customer looks at the most...again I`m saying this in the interest of offering lower cost alternatives to my normal packages where I spend 14 - 25 hours on the exterior...the intent would be to finish within one day spending 5 to 6 hours.

This Jeep Rubicon I`m working on has more plastic than paint panels, and there were two very deep scratches on this brand new jeep that needed to filled in, wetsanded, and buffed. Other than correcting the owners scouring of the hood, there isn`t a whole lot of buffing to do on the rest of it, and I`m expecting the customer to be very pleased as he was happy with the interim results yesterday.

Richard

Originally Posted by th0001

I find it a relief when I don`t have to polish paint. A swirl free finish isn`t for everybody, and you automatically know that your client is going to be happy with the results.