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  1. #31

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    Re: Airless tires, what do you think ??

    Desertnate- Right about the smaller/lighter vehicles using lower pressures. I ran lower pressures in the sports cars than I do in what I drive these days.

    And yeah, as Dan said you can tweak handling characteristics a bit by playing with front-rear diffs, but if something *really* oversteers drastically (and I don`t mean just the way an old Porsche will) IMO it`s not set up right. As they say, "cars don`t oversteer, *drivers* do". Well, at least with remotely modern vehicles.

  2. #32
    Detailers Workshop The Driver's Avatar
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    Re: Airless tires, what do you think ??

    Sway bar size and ratio will also dictate steering characteristics very heavily. Increasing the diameter Ie my car from 20mm to 25mm will increase handling but messing with the ratio can increase oversteer Ex.putting a ticker swaybar in the front over the rear and the opposite is also true. Drivetrain also has a role - FWD (Torque steer) AWD (Oversteer/ F&R Split ratios) 4WD and RWD.
    Rupes 21 MK II, Rupes 15 MK II, Rupes 21, Rupes LHR75e, Rupes Duetto, Rupes Ibrid-L, Rupes LH18ENS, Flex PE-14-2, Dodo Juice V1

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    At $21.99 it will remain a secret to me.

  3. #33

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    Re: Airless tires, what do you think ??

    The Driver- Heh heh, yeah...the original owner of my previous Crown Vic had totally [screwed] it up trying to "upgrade" it in just that way (HUGE rear bar with poly + a very small front one with rubber). Worked fine up to about 6/10ths but then it was simply a Drift Car, had to really back off in the wet. He freaked when I demonstrated (and controlled ) that, having never really pushed the car. A slightly bigger front bar with poly bushings fixed everything just fine. (I do like Crown Vics sorta "loose", hate when they just understeer like stock.)

    And TBH, the way I like to set those cars up renders them less stable at >~130mph, but I don`t go there enough to care. Always some kind of trade-off.

    Great point about how different AWD can be! My Audis and my Subies were totally different, and the 4WD Tahoe is different from how the AWD Yukon XLD was. I`ve never driven a FWD vehicle that I liked very much (handling-wise), but I hear some of today`s FWD cars are really good.

  4. #34
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    Re: Airless tires, what do you think ??

    Then it also makes a difference what kind of track. A tight slow corner takes a different setup than fast flowing corners.

    Take a car with McPherson struts, and stick a big front bar in will actually reduce understeer in tight corners. In fast flowing turns it increases understeer.

    Its not not a static setup. It changes based on all parameters including driving style.

  5. #35

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    Re: Airless tires, what do you think ??

    Coleroad- Yes indeed, sorta a case of finding the best overall compromise (at least for street cars).

  6. #36

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    Re: Airless tires, what do you think ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    I`ve never driven a FWD vehicle that I liked very much (handling-wise), but I hear some of today`s FWD cars are really good.
    I own a GTI and have driven a few other "good handling" FWD cars and I`d still take a RWD over them without question. I also hear the Civic Type R is probably the best handling FWD car ever, but I haven`t had a chance to drive one and doubt it would change my mind.

    I thought I had made peace with the idea of a good handling FWD car until I recently test drove an M2 Competition recently. Simply reminded me of how limited FWD really is when driven with enthusiasm. Not because of the power huge power difference, but on dynamics and balance alone. You could have put a lawn mower engine in the M2 and I`d still like it better than any FWD car.
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  7. #37

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    Re: Airless tires, what do you think ??

    Desertnate- Agree completely. And yeah, it does sound like that Honda is All That, but I could never live with the looks.

    I bet your GTI is still a great car, as were my CRX`s. I gotta admit that whenever I found the "FWD limits" I was doing stupid [stuff] that I shouldn`t have been doing on the street. And FWIW, a pal of mine (Driving School instructor, serious SCCA competitor) used to *lap* cars like `vettes at MidOhio..in the same CRX he drove to work every day. As they say, "it`s not about the bike".

  8. #38

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    Re: Airless tires, what do you think ??

    Great discussion...even if we`ve left airless tires behind. I love nerding out on these kinds of topics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Accumulator View Post
    Desertnate- Agree completely. And yeah, it does sound like that Honda is All That, but I could never live with the looks.

    I bet your GTI is still a great car, as were my CRX`s. I gotta admit that whenever I found the "FWD limits" I was doing stupid [stuff] that I shouldn`t have been doing on the street. And FWIW, a pal of mine (Driving School instructor, serious SCCA competitor) used to *lap* cars like `vettes at MidOhio..in the same CRX he drove to work every day. As they say, "it`s not about the bike".
    CRX`s? Wow, those were great cars. I really wish I could have owned one in their prime.

    Despite the GTI being a great handling car, I have come close enough to the limits on a remote backroad to dislike the understeer that starts to set in. On the track it wasn`t too bad, but at an autocross, I REALLY notice it on the tighter turns. Like your friend, there is a guy in our local SCCA Solo chapter driving a GTI who was in the top 10% based on raw score and killed everyone once the index was calculated. It`s amazing what can be accomplished with the right driver.
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  9. #39

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    Re: Airless tires, what do you think ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertnate View Post
    Great discussion...even if we`ve left airless tires behind. I love nerding out on these kinds of topics...
    Heh heh, glad it`s not just me
    CRX`s? Wow, those were great cars. I really wish I could have owned one in their prime.
    MAYBE....but the early carb`ed one had vaporlock (or somesuch) issues that got really problematic, like..." it sat in the driveway while I borrowed a car" problematic and you had to turn off the A/C now and then when you needed power. The Si with FI was fine in those regards, and it was really fun. But it *had* to have good snows in the winter or it was terminal understeer at any speed in the snow.

    But yeah, great cars for a young guy, same as today`s Sis undoubtedly are for today`s young folks.
    Despite the GTI being a great handling car, I have come close enough to the limits on a remote backroad to dislike the understeer that starts to set in. On the track it wasn`t too bad, but at an autocross, I REALLY notice it on the tighter turns.
    Heh heh, that sounds just like something I`d say

    Like your friend, there is a guy in our local SCCA Solo chapter driving a GTI who was in the top 10% based on raw score and killed everyone once the index was calculated...
    And I bet he loves every minute he spends in that car

    Ya know, one of the most fun driving exercises for me was being pursued by somebody in a better car. Real sense of accomplishment stuff there.

    It`s amazing what can be accomplished with the right driver.
    Yes indeed.

 

 
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