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  1. #1
    Forza Auto Salon David Fermani's Avatar
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    Are waxes or sealants even necessary with today’s modern clearcoats? If so, how?



    Are they adding longevity to its composition? Hence feeding, coating, sealing…



    Are they eliminating UV rays from fading the basecoat?



    Are they eliminating acids from rain, birds and insects from etching into the clearcoat?



    Do they create a sacrificial barrier that eliminates surface marring due to slickness? Even though initial slickness falls off almost initially after the 1st few washes, does that mean this so-called protective characteristic has diminished too?



    Is beading indicative of protection? If so at what capacity?





    I`ve seen and worked on tons of 2-3++ vehicles that had never been LSP`d and most times never witnessed any damage that the LSP could have eliminated. Yeah, each one had tons of RIDS and swirls, but that`s irrelavent to protection value.



    Is the silicone content in LSP’s, (which is what’s really responsible for this attribute enthusiasts cherish/envy/idolize so much that creates a vehicle to bead and sheet water) add any benefit to the longevity of paint? (i.e. waxing an oxidized finish and 3 weeks later it fades right back but still beads water)







    Thought:

    If you split up a daily driven vehicle into ’s where 1 side was LSP’d every 4 months for 10 years & the other half was lightly polished at the same interval with a non-abrasive finishing polish coupled with a non-abrasive finishing pad (i.e. jewelling) which side would be better preserved over the long term? No matter how well refined your wash regiment is, you’re still instilling a measureable (not seen by the naked eye mind you) amount of super micro-marring that’s slowly depleting the appearance of the gloss. The LSP’d side will never correct this super ultra fine micro-marring, thus snowballing the hazing effect, where the regularly polished side will be regularly correcting it. I’m sure at this point in your reading you’re saying to yourself that every time you polish the surface you’re thinning the thickness of the clearcoat, right? But are you, and how much? I’d be willing to say that this non-abrasive practice that’s being done 40 times over the course of the comparison *might* remove less than 5 microns (not mils) of film build? Doing the math and acknowledging the thought that many vehicle manufactures don’t recommend removing any more than ~.5 mils(12.7 microns) of clear before *possible* detrimental UV exposure *could* occur, there’s still tons of clear left to still be on the “safe” side. The upside of this comparison is that the polished finish will look totally better than the just LSP’d side.





    Which would you rather have?
    Metro Detroit`s leader in cleaning, preserving & perfecting fine automobiles!

  2. #2

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    "Are waxes or sealants even necessary with today’s modern clearcoats? If so, how?



    Are they adding longevity to its composition? Hence feeding, coating, sealing…



    Are they eliminating UV rays from fading the basecoat?



    Are they eliminating acids from rain, birds and insects from etching into the clearcoat?



    Do they create a sacrificial barrier that eliminates surface marring due to slickness? Even though initial slickness falls off almost initially after the 1st few washes, does that mean this so-called protective characteristic has diminished too? "



    just throwing out there, optimum has come out with a new sealent that adds 75 microns and has a supposid 3 year dourability while still holding the gloss/ bead/ wetness factor that we all envy :nixweiss

  3. #3

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    "Is the silicone content in LSP’s, (which is what’s really responsible for this attribute enthusiasts cherish/envy/idolize so much that creates a vehicle to bead and sheet water) add any benefit to the longevity of paint? (i.e. waxing an oxidized finish and 3 weeks later it fades right back but still beads water)"



    Not all LSP`s contain silicone. Many premium and luxury waxes are all natural. I wouldn`t attribute silicone to producing a desirable finish either.



    With the waxes I use I can literally feel a measurable layer of protection above the clear. Any bird droppings or insect contaminants would not reach the clear, nor would it have the ability to etch into the clearcoat.

  4. #4

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    It may or may not make the paint last longer , but it sure makes it look good. I.M.O. it not how long the paint lasts , because modern paints last a long time , its how long the wax or sealants keep their gloss.

  5. #5

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    Please get back to me when the ten year test is completed.

  6. #6

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    you need to delete this thread, this is bad for business LMAO just kidding.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by trippmann



    just throwing out there, optimum has come out with a new sealent that adds 75 microns and has a supposid 3 year dourability while still holding the gloss/ bead/ wetness factor that we all envy :nixweiss






    is this sealant being sold yet? i looked for it but cant find it anywhere. anyone? thanks in advanced

  8. #8
    MarcHarris's Avatar
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    some very good points being made by David here.



    first off - we all love to care for our vehicles (and/or clients) by helping to provide protection and gloss but I think some of the responses are a little off.



    Waxing will provide such a thin layer that given a short amount of time acid rain, bird poo, any APC/degreaser/soap will eat through this valued "protection" which I think is exactly the OP`s point. With such a small amount of weak protection - can you actually say it`s doing much to help?



    surely waxing helps visually, but how much more does it do? With modern clear-coats, I have a hard time believing waxing will protect from rust in most cases.
    Marc Harris from AutoLavish Fine Automobile Care of Michigan

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by FirstRate

    With the waxes I use I can literally feel a measurable layer of protection above the clear. Any bird droppings or insect contaminants would not reach the clear, nor would it have the ability to etch into the clearcoat.


    :har:



    I don`t buy it.

  10. #10

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    David does bring up some food for thought. However, despite advances in paint, it still is exposed constantly to UV, environmental hazards, raildust, etc. Waxes/sealants provide a barrier, albeit temporary one to stem the onslaught of these contaminants. I would believe that the non-abrasive polished side would look better than the side wih just regular applications of LSP.

  11. #11

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    To me, a waxed car is lot easier to wash and dry.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Fermani
    Are waxes or sealants even necessary with today’s modern clearcoats? If so, how?




    Clear coat is just paint without pigment in it, not some special protective coating.
    BespokeCarDetailing and AeroCleanse, LLC

  13. #13
    Bostonsfavson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirstRate
    With the waxes I use I can literally feel a measurable layer of protection above the clear. Any bird droppings or insect contaminants would not reach the clear, nor would it have the ability to etch into the clearcoat.


    I don`t know what LSPs you use, but I have to believe that you only *think* that you`re feeling something. The thickness of most LSPs is measured in microns, which would be undetectable by the human hand.
    Will

  14. #14

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    All I know is when my car is freshly waxed/sealed its a hell of a lot easier to clean.



    If my wax/sealant provides uv protection, inhibits rust or oxidation, or protects from acid rain and bug/bird etching than its icing on the cake.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonsfavson
    I don`t know what LSPs you use, but I have to believe that you only *think* that you`re feeling something. The thickness of most LSPs is measured in microns, which would be undetectable by the human hand.


    I don`t know if you are right about that - try putting at least 4 coats of Klasse SG on a car and you will feel a difference. Like there is more clear on the car or it`s wrapped in a plastic film.
    PC 7424 / POOR BOYS / KLASSE / Black WOW / PlastX / Lexol / 303 / Bissell Auto Care / Bissell Garage Pro Vac

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